Balance

[pianolarva]

I see you've catched up. It is what it is. However, there are people that still care about the game.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

There definitely is a dedicated fan base otherwise this site won't be a thing , but no I don't think "it is what it is" there is the tools to change the game to bring a new interesting balance I mean the MP looks like a back and forth BLoodlust spam with some DKs thrown into the mix and some catapults I don't think its good for a game to have such one sided match ups the community can do something about this it will be a breath of fresh air something to incite curiosity into people to make them  try out new strategies it sounds far fetched as people will most likely stick to what they know never leaving the comfort zone but We can try to rebalance the game even if it won't mean much in the end at least we tried to bring something new.

[pianolarva]

There's not much more than what Danny posted afaik. That's all there is. If you can come up with something better go ahead. I have the feeling that the playerbase will keep ordering the same flavor.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

There's not much more than what Danny posted afaik. That's all there is. If you can come up with something better go ahead. I have the feeling that the playerbase will keep ordering the same flavor.

Didn't danny change textures graphics add new units voice lines and such? Yeah I mean simply changing the balance of the game while keeping everything else the same was that attempted before? I think it would make for an interesting experiment to shake the meta a little the meta reminds me of red alert 2 meta ra2 being one of the most famous RTS games out there kind of feels like lacking in MP as the meta revolves mainly around the same units for the allies its the prism tanks for the most part the soviets well rhinos and apocalypse tanks while everything else is akin to accessories does it make for a fun gameplay yeah does it get boring fast? Heck yeah I think wc2 suffers the same issue the game revolves around a set of units that are the only way to acquire a reliable amount of wins with AKA ogre magi honestly wc2 should be renamed from "tides of darkness" to  "tides of bloodlust"

[pianolarva]

I think so. And I don't know. I'm not suprised the same happens at other games.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

I think so. And I don't know. I'm not suprised the same happens at other games.

Huh that's correct some games tend to shift the focus of the meta from time to time or even the meta itself changes like age of empires 2 where the devs are continuously attempting to make infantry be meta although the way they do it is debatable same for wc3  the meta for the undead is shifting from crypt fiends (undead ranged unit) to ghouls (undead basic melee unit) the thing is players will always keep poking the game until they find the perfect strategy or tactics and the poor devs have to work with that somehow XD as someone said there is no perfect balance but the best we can do is make every unit useable now in wc2 case its making every unit unique in a way that slightly differs from its counterpart and is more suitable towards the faction theme/identity I would like to hear people thoughts on this.

[pianolarva]

I like that.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

I like that.

 Yes btw I think u have seen it my post about rebalance what do you think of the proposed changes? I didn't get much feedback aside from "muh you made orcs stronger"

[pianolarva]

Feedback from experienced players would be more valuable. I think it's fine, they are not massive changes, it's solid, but the interesting part is what you do with humans. No need to go into numbers. As of now, you haven't said much about balance as a whole. I don't see it either, humans are going to improve how?

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Feedback from experienced players would be more valuable. I think it's fine, they are not massive changes, it's solid, but the interesting part is what you do with humans. No need to go into numbers. As of now, you haven't said much about balance as a whole. I don't see it either, humans are going to improve how?

Yeah humans are a bit more tricky orcs are just brute strength but humans would be a lot more diverse it would need some thinking and figuring out some stuff and yes I definitely would want insight from long time pro players it is useful although something to keep in mind is that professional players are a minority and their views may not necessarily align with the rest of the more casual community.

[dannyldd]

i think rangers + mage slow and fireballs are a good counter to ogres, as long as blizzard/D&D is nerfed to have range 5 and mana cost to like 75

problem with the strongest spells is that they are so powerful in comparison to anything else.

there're way more area of effect attacks/spells that could help out against bloodlust, without necessarily removing the insane damage that bloodlust does.

One of the other problems is that present in multiplayer, its the fact people tend to play on the fastest speed in war2, which makes impossible to micro with spells and units like rangers. Including the overall big latency. To anybody outside of russia or USA.

Skeletons definetely deserve something like 60 HP, more attack speed, a bit of armor and more damage, like on my mods. If skeletons are present in play, you will automatically see exorcism being used way more.

Flame shield is the other so undervalued and non used spell in game, which i think could be way more fun to see in action, if blizzard/D&D is nerfed in range and mana cost.

[pianolarva]

So you just threw half an idea out there expecting feedback.


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Combos as counters? Mages spending all their mana for that? Just nerf the spells. Sure, inviz can help you. To disappear.
Micro can be a pain anyway.
Flame shield: idk it could be good, it could be the worst.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

i think rangers + mage slow and fireballs are a good counter to ogres, as long as blizzard/D&D is nerfed to have range 5 and mana cost to like 75

problem with the strongest spells is that they are so powerful in comparison to anything else.

there're way more area of effect attacks/spells that could help out against bloodlust, without necessarily removing the insane damage that bloodlust does.

One of the other problems is that present in multiplayer, its the fact people tend to play on the fastest speed in war2, which makes impossible to micro with spells and units like rangers. Including the overall big latency. To anybody outside of russia or USA.

Skeletons definetely deserve something like 60 HP, more attack speed, a bit of armor and more damage, like on my mods. If skeletons are present in play, you will automatically see exorcism being used way more.

Flame shield is the other so undervalued and non used spell in game, which i think could be way more fun to see in action, if blizzard/D&D is nerfed in range and mana cost.

  Death and decay and blizzard may indeed need some rework and rebalance  , I stated before that teching into rangers is quite a task and I doubt someone would consider starting ranger spam until they get +2 dmg  rangers also share the same building with paladins which u would need to protect the other units so the humans are put in this difficult situation where they have to get multiple barracks and train a multitude of units and pay a huge amount of resources to upgrade them while orc is just "bloodlust go brrrrrr" with some DKs as such its better to simply nerf bloodlust while I get that it would take some of the awesomeness the spell has x1.5 will be a middle ground I believe , interesting stuff about skeletons they are awful not worth the effort  ,  and flame shield is really a cool spell  it could force the enemy to micro their units carefully isolating that unit from the rest  problem is its double edged sword I think the lightning shield from wc3 has way more impact due to how the game plays like in wc2 it more or less spammy game but in 3 forcing the enemy to relocate a unit could make it easier to kill and secure a tactical victory for the player.


On the topic of speed it really do seem to play a role personally I can't stand the stupidity of units running around like some sort of racing car and the running animations are way too goofy on fastest speed a possible solution would be to rework the start of the game instead of starting with a single worker u start with a townhall instead as I heard that the reason fastest speed is played is due to the very slow start of the game.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

So you just threw half an idea out there expecting feedback.

No I didn't say I need feedback for humans now the human rebalance still needs a couple days of cooking before its ready there is also space to mess around with building time and buildings costs such changes may push certain factions to a certain playstyle

[pianolarva]

I don't see the point then.
You can play with costs to make a faction release less amount of powerful units. But you've seen how outnumbering the enemy matters.