ICCUP Style Ladder

[Winchester]

I work like a fucking dog to make the best ladder league ever and you all spit on it.

Your all fucking lazy, get a new ladder from il gonna take 8 month, it already take him 2 week to put a new banner on lobby Lol.

Good luck bunch of delusional.

You did nothing. Your league means nothing when your shoving it down everybodys throat to sign up for your meaningless site (Which might I add  no one should trust a site made by you of all people) when you can simply make a thread and get it stickied  on the forums.

Also it's funny that you call me the dog not long ago. But look whos calling themselves a dog now LOL.

[{Lance}]

That is the point.  It should be harder to KEEP a rank.  Not attain it.  You should be able to quickly attain AND hold a rank.  Thats how proper ranking works.  If it takes you 500 years to grind to the rank you "should" be at, then the ranking system is flawed.  If it takes you 500 years to get to a rank you arent suppose to be at, then you shouldnt be there for very long as other better players will come along and push you out of the rank by beating you over and over and over.  Thats a proper ladder system.  The only downfall to such a system is that a low population will result in the bottom tier being closer to the top (which is actually SUPPOSE to happen since the skill level is dwindling, so should the power rankings).

if you take a look at the iccup ladder top50, you will see most players have 30-100 games in the top 100 (with a few K ppl in the ladder) and ppl with a skill lvl of rank #200 are probably ranked somewhere there
on top of that there could be a ladder reset once in a while to prevent players with alot of games sitting on top
iccup has some good rules to prevent abusing too (which sucked in the bnet ladder)

anyhow, we should either improve the current ladder or create a new one, anything will be better and maybe help to keep some newbs/people

You do realize that Win Percentage has absolutely NOTHING to do with skill level correct?  Why bother lumping win percentage in with a subject of skill ranking?  That's like saying you wont get a flat tire because you have a V8 engine.  It makes zero sense.  Also,  why are you saying 75-100% win ratios are good to begin with?  Where did you get that idea?  Maybe you need edgu-ma-cay-tion on what a TRUE ranking system should look?  Here's a reason why your "good win ratio" makes about as much sense as your ass.  Just because you have a high win percentage DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A GOD.  What it DOES mean is that you're continually beating players WITH LESS SKILL.  So thank you for showing a screenshot that proves why cases ladder is WAY better than ELO ratings.  This SS does nothing more than prove that the upper echelon are playing against noobs, not other highly ranked players.  Otherwise they wouldnt be winning so much.  A real ladder will have the top players with between 50-60 win percentage because of the high skill of the players they are playing.  This SS doesnt show that at all.

One CRITICAL statistic that is missing (that my own ladder had) was an Avg played rank.  It tells you the average rank that the user is playing.  For example,  if you are #1 and you have an avg played rank of 85 and the #2 player has an Avg play rank of 10,  then the real #1 player is actually #2 IMO and if they were to play,  my bet is that the current #1 player is going to lose his spot VERY soon.

[GaNzTheLegend]

Wrong the best Hots player in the world has a 72.70% winrate and the 8th guy has 75.62% winrate and this is with a ladder system that AUTO matches you up with opponents of equal skill and is ELO based.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/

[{Lance}]

You do realize that a proper ELO implementation wont have a rating anywhere near 2000 let alone 6000+.  The best chess players in the world rarely achieve 2800+.  The sc2 link looks more like a better implementation than that of iccup, whoever,  rung style (AKA cases/igl style) can achieve the same results with lower populations and less math.  And there is no such thing as a "series" in an ELO world.  You simply grind until you're at the top.  You dont even have to play the top 5 players to take the #1 spot and that is just retarded.  This is why rung style IMO clips ELO's fancy schmancy algorithms.  ELO was not really invented to determine who is #1.  It was created to determine who MIGHT win.  Thus, it should NOT be used as a ranking method and instead should be used as a MATCH MAKING statistic.  That's where Blizzard goes wrong.  It uses it for ranks as well as match making and that's improper use of the ELO system.

[I hate naggers]

anyhoo if me remembur correctly, there was a parralel Elo (stop capitalizing ELO, its not an acronym you dumb retards) ranking in IGL ladder? the actual rank was cases style, but there was a "skill/elo points" field there too? we could do that with current ladder to see how the point ladder system behaves. peepul might like it

[GaNzTheLegend]

anyhoo if me remembur correctly, there was a parralel Elo (stop capitalizing ELO, its not an acronym you dumb retards) ranking in IGL ladder? the actual rank was cases style, but there was a "skill/elo points" field there too? we could do that with current ladder to see how the point ladder system behaves. peepul might like it

League of legends uses an elo system, nothing cases about it.

[{Lance}]

My own ladder also had Elo as well but it was not the ranking method.  It was simply a "statistic".  If 2 players play,  you should be able to predict who has a higher probability of winning based on the Elo.  As the difference in numbers increase,  the probability of the higher Elo ranked player of winning goes.  Why Elo is continuously used for a "Ranking" system is baffling to me and Blizzard is the biggest abuser of this.  It's not a ranking method.  It's a probability algorithm that "can" be used for Matchmaking random people (Of which War2 does NOT have and thus why I believe its a completely irrelevant stat other than for bragging rights).

[I hate naggers]

anyhoo if me remembur correctly, there was a parralel Elo (stop capitalizing ELO, its not an acronym you dumb retards) ranking in IGL ladder? the actual rank was cases style, but there was a "skill/elo points" field there too? we could do that with current ladder to see how the point ladder system behaves. peepul might like it

League of legends uses an elo system, nothing cases about it.

thats great bro but if you dont know what IGL is or you cant read (IGL != LOL) you shouldnt pretend that you have an opinion about the subject

[GaNzTheLegend]

My own ladder also had Elo as well but it was not the ranking method.  It was simply a "statistic".  If 2 players play,  you should be able to predict who has a higher probability of winning based on the Elo.  As the difference in numbers increase,  the probability of the higher Elo ranked player of winning goes.  Why Elo is continuously used for a "Ranking" system is baffling to me and Blizzard is the biggest abuser of this.  It's not a ranking method.  It's a probability algorithm that "can" be used for Matchmaking random people (Of which War2 does NOT have and thus why I believe its a completely irrelevant stat other than for bragging rights).

I think blizzard uses elo based ranking since they use auto match making and its really the only viable solution. Think about how the cases ranking would work with auto matchmaking, one person in the match would always have nothing to lose and nothing to gain while the other player has something to gain and nothing to lose. The higher player might be inclined just to leave the game or do some quick all in strat instead of wasting their time playing when they get nothing even for winning. Its really not fair to the higher ranked player. Also, how would it determine how often you play a higher ranked player vs a lower ranked player and how much higher etc. It really would be a mess.

[GaNzTheLegend]

anyhoo if me remembur correctly, there was a parralel Elo (stop capitalizing ELO, its not an acronym you dumb retards) ranking in IGL ladder? the actual rank was cases style, but there was a "skill/elo points" field there too? we could do that with current ladder to see how the point ladder system behaves. peepul might like it

League of legends uses an elo system, nothing cases about it.

thats great bro but if you dont know what IGL is or you cant read (IGL != LOL) you shouldnt pretend that you have an opinion about the subject

I had LOL on my mind and quickly skimmed through your post and I misread it. My apologies.

[GaNzTheLegend]

Also, the ICCUP icons are pretty sexy and would be a way to get people more active as everyone would want to have a higher grade.

[chayliss]

rewrite the built in ladder to be cases style.....with a good set map pool

[GaNzTheLegend]

there already is a cases style ladder.war2.ru

[BHC-JesK]

I'm still not sure which system is the best. Maybe we should start to make the current ladder system more competitive and interesting which will be way less work than building a new ladder from scratch.

[poiuyt]

the only reason people like me/adam/ilyich/getyatipwet/poiuyt are top 10 right now is because people are inactive or not playing 1v1s ... in theory we are actually the top 10-20 active 1v1 players right now.... its kinda pathetic but thats just the way it is lol.

Lol, didn't think i'll run into my name in the forum. Although i finally got more ladder wins then losses, so maybe i'll climb my way DOWN the ladder ranking [emoji6]