There was a time...

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

A person wouldn't necessarily have to be super intelligent to be great at chess. Someone who is would be able to learn it and understand how it is played as they gain experience much more easily though, chess for sure requires understanding of logic whether you're intelligent or not. Some people no matter how they try to learn will not be able to get good at chess, it's just one of those things. Warcraft 2 with help from good players or studying up and practicing someone could reasonably get good much easier. Also finding a top level player to teach you Warcraft 2 GOW would be much easier than getting a champion chess player to tutor you in the game, have your cash ready. Chess is a very prestigious game and people that are at the top of it didn't learn it over night they are very skilled.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

i guess im not seeing how chess requires above average intelligence to be good at long term. sure initially intelligence dictates how fast you pick it up but if you play a couple hours a day, nearly every day, for years on end (just like the good war2 players have done at some point in their life)..at some point i have to believe the vast majority of the moves become instinctual and almost reflexive.

Nah dude that's not how chess really works.  I mean, yeah, to a certain level, but not enough to become elite.  That takes serious analytical intelligence.

[tk[as]]

i guess im not seeing how chess requires above average intelligence to be good at long term. sure initially intelligence dictates how fast you pick it up but if you play a couple hours a day, nearly every day, for years on end (just like the good war2 players have done at some point in their life)..at some point i have to believe the vast majority of the moves become instinctual and almost reflexive.

Nah dude that's not how chess really works.  I mean, yeah, to a certain level, but not enough to become elite.  That takes serious analytical intelligence.

yeah no. i think one could become "good" just being mildly intelligent and playing obsessively like one does towards war2... over time patterns emerge and moves become almost more or less reflexive.... but chess is not as stimulating to the brain (for most people) as war2 is so there aren't many people who play hours on end every day for years on end

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

"There are over 9 million different possible positions after three moves each. There are over 288 billion different possible positions after four moves each. The number of distinct 40-move games is far greater than the number of electrons in the observable universe." Your argument that "patterns will emerge" is totally wrong. You will become far more used to playing strategies in chess once you are good enough, but besides that there are literally almost infinite moves in chess it is just as much about knowing what your opponent is going to do. Blid is completely correct in saying "Nah dude that's not how chess really works.  I mean, yeah, to a certain level, but not enough to become elite.  That takes serious analytical intelligence." Elite chess players make big money for the tournaments they win and chess is considered to be among the very top games of mental logic and skill.

[tk[as]]

very interesting discussion if anyone wants to take the time to read it.. 10,000 conscious hours of practice seems to be the general rule of thumb to become a Grand Master @ chess (ive played way more than 10,000 hours of war2 and am still not a top tier player)

but any way.. here's the discussion actual chess players are having and they're providing different links if anyone is actually interested in their thoughts on the matter:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/becoming-a-grand-master

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

I really don't need to. I understand that becoming a grand master in chess is extremely prestigious and difficult to do. Becoming a champion tournament winner in chess will make you rich or well off. Also my Father is a grand master in the game bridge. It is the first card game recognized by The Guiness Book Of World Records for being mostly all skill. It is also a logic game but with bidding and cards instead of Chess. The reason a card game like Duplicate Bridge is able to be logical and judged by skill is because Duplicate means each pair(bridge is played with a partner) plays the same boards(random hands) of cards as the other pairs and gets points on how they bid and took the tricks. It is a cool but very difficult game as well. My Dad won the 5 state championship of bridge 5 times back in the 60s and 70s. He also won the Iowa state championship of bridge 10 years in a row and qualified for the Nationals twice. You receive master points for placing in bridge which accumulate over a lifetime and rich people will pay you to play with them if you become a grand master or accumulate enough points / prove yourself. Bridge is dying out though in that it's mostly people over 50 now, but it is a very cool skill based game as well.

[tk[as]]

we need frostbitten  to come here


http://www.chess.com/members/view/ChristoferP

[tk[as]]

alf-attack and messiah are decent players as well i believe

[Swift]

smeagol - I wasn't trying to really compare gow/war2 to chess and pball to tic tac toe, it was just an expression.

in other news, I would like to ignore the fact that smeagol is insanely naïve and only decent at a special Olympics division of war2 (pball), and move on to something far more interesting....

tk - chess is insanely complicated, and it's telling about you that you don't see this. the learning curve is immense, and it's a perfect game to expose one's analytical/reasoning limitations. i think you're trolling though and i like it.

lets turn this into a troll thread guys

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

Swift you are in the special Olympics division of expressing yourself. You make a list with 3 games then assign them a game without using it in a metaphor then once someone calls you on it you claim you didn't say it. You can change what you want something to mean after the fact that doesn't change the fact writing and expressing yourself is black and white moron. You are a moronic narcissist Swift you aren't a millionaire, I'm not going to say you aren't good at GOW because you are. You try to sound important and act like you know about any variety of things but you're really just some dumb ass who happens to be good at GOW. Thinking playing a different type of video game makes you great and other who play different ones are inferior puts you in the retarded narcissist hall of fame in my books.     

[Swift]

you're making an argument for pball = everyone can now permanently laugh at you

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

The discussion was about EF I didn't turn the discussion to PBall. People can laugh at me for what video game I play could care less. At least they aren't laughing at me because I am a self inflated piece of shit who really knows far less than he thinks. Oh Swift you are amazing you can build cities on a video game from 1995 and are better than the other 200 people who play let me worship you. Get a life loser, it's a video game meant to played for fun and any map takes a certain skill, glad we have retards like you who think they can pick out exactly how much each one takes.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

smeagol - I wasn't trying to really compare gow/war2 to chess and pball to tic tac toe, it was just an expression.

in other news, I would like to ignore the fact that smeagol is insanely naïve and only decent at a special Olympics division of war2 (pball), and move on to something far more interesting....

tk - chess is insanely complicated, and it's telling about you that you don't see this. the learning curve is immense, and it's a perfect game to expose one's analytical/reasoning limitations. i think you're trolling though and i like it.

lets turn this into a troll thread guys

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

War2 is actually more complex than chess. So many more variables. If I spent as much time playing chess in the last 17 years as I have war2, I feel confident I would be top 100 in the world at chess... assuming all other war2 players didn't do the same thing, but even if they did I'm sure I'd still be top 3-400

[Swift]

The discussion was about EF I didn't turn the discussion to PBall. People can laugh at me for what video game I play could care less. At least they aren't laughing at me because I am a self inflated piece of shit who really knows far less than he thinks. Oh Swift you are amazing you can build cities on a video game from 1995 and are better than the other 200 people who play let me worship you. Get a life loser, it's a video game meant to played for fun and any map takes a certain skill, glad we have retards like you who think they can pick out exactly how much each one takes.

pball "players" are just dumber than average human beings who couldn't compete on maps like gow