You say they're exploiting to some extent, as if every job isn't, probably including yours, exploiting someone somehow. The question is how excessive is it, and in the case of my example it's extremely minimal.
No it's not. They literally make their livelihood from exploitation. Charity doesn't nullifly exploitation, exploitation and charity are not matter and antimatter. While I myself am the beneficiary of exploitation of various sorts, for example, the exploitation of the workers who produce cheap products for me and other first worlders, I do not make a living through exploiting others. In fact, I am exploited by my employer and my livelihood comes from the wage I am given by my employer, which is a small fraction of the actual value I produce for said employer.
Also, I never made an example that suggests they give so much away they aren't wealthy. They are wealthy because the good will means of production or land that they own, is worth a substantial amount on the open market to your typical rich folk.
That's what I thought, I was bringing up "so much to charity they are no longer to wealthy" because that is the only way the situation you are describing can even come close to not being exploitative, and even then it probably would be. But it's a nonsense scenario so discussing it does not matter. In this situation, these people make an excessive amount of wealth, more than the majority of people who have lived on the planet throughout history, the vast vast majority, could never even dream of obtaining a fraction of themselves. But they are good people because a small fraction of that goes to a "good cause" while they continue to live better than even the most decadent monarchs of past eras? Insanely stupid.
I notice that you're twisting my words. I previously clarified that when I said I don't have any real life examples, I was saying I don't PERSONALLY know the stories of anyone in how they acquired their initial capital, and then I provided plenty of non-personal examples on a web, a website that has hundreds if not thousand examples of how people acquired their wealth - and almost every single one involves the exact example I gave.
Lol yeah let me go to some propaganda site for rich people to have your point proven to me. Not that it matters - my argument applies equally to all these people, down to the most ultra-charitable example you can find. You lack a basic understanding of exploitation and how capitalism functions.
As for if they're profitable or not, yes, they are. So you say they exploit people by providing discounted rents + giving away the excess + working to manage the real estate, yet you haven't clarified where the exploitation is in excess to your average 9-5 job.
Because they use their control of property to profit off of people's need for shelter. The necessity of shelter is withheld from individuals simply because they cannot pay, not because the shelter is not available to them. That is exploitation.
Of course they're going to make a profit, they need to survive - and they are providing a service. They're effectively managing housing at this point and thats a job. If they didn't make 40-80k (depending what part of country you are in), they wouldn't be able to provide for their family.
Yeah all those landlords who make millions and give it all away except for 40-80k a year. Lmfao.
Also, you just admitted this is not charity, it is solely an act driven by profit. Moreover, again, an essential life need is withheld for the pursuit of profit. This is exploitation. If you were starving and I had an abundance of food and you had no money, and I made you pay me for bread, you would think this is a moral outrage. But because you are indoctrinated in the logic of liberal capitalism, you find it acceptable in the macro sense.
Giving away "excess profits" means they're giving away enough to the point where their income is at or around average for their market after all donations - this obviously varies by area.
40k-80k is "around average?" Compared to what? Lmfao. How many people in China do you think make 40k? Oh yeah, you're just talking about the US, as if you can meaningfully separate the two in a global capitalist system.
This isn't a hypothetical example, the pastor I mentioned is a real person who does such. it's not known to his congregation, but everyone a part of the churches staff/ministry is well aware that he pastors for $1/yr and donates so much of the profits from his real estate income that he ends up bringing home less than the average family does in his city.
I don't believe you, and even if you were right, he's still a rent seeking parasite.
GN - I don't understand what you're trying to argue with me about. We actually agree on almost everything. But you bringing up that the average world income < average us income, or bringing up that biggerpockets.com is full of propaganda doesn't combat or even address the points I was actually trying to make. Also, everytime I provide an example about someone who gives away the vast majority of their profits, or I mention that they have lots of $/capital investments to produce such profits (which is essential in almost every vocation in a capitalist society, thus my examples wouldn't even work without it), you then interpret it as "ohh scumbag who gives away a small portion of his profits," which is clearly not what I am saying.
As for everything else, you basically just talked about how rent seeking is exploitation. I don't disagree. You also keep suggesting I don't understand capitalism on a macro level or how it functions in general. There's no where you can derive such without continuing to misinterpret what I am saying.
also whether you believe that example or not is irrelevant. my whole point is not about trying to prove that such characters exist.
At the end of the day, we basically see eye to eye on everything except maybe this one thing - I am okay with a capitalist who focuses on driving profits so long as they give the VAST MAJORITY of it back. I rented for years, and although I was exploited for profits, my life was awesome and I had everything I needed + 100x that. So, If I had a landlord who provided me housing and then gave away a huge chunk of his profits to appropriate causes, then I would be very ok with that. I understand as a whole that this doesn't help to fix the problem at large, which is to kill off capitalism. But because capitalism isn't going anywhere soon, then I basically see this as a necessary evil. Obviously I am speaking very generally, and if I took many other things into account such as certain landlords who provide housing to very low income individuals and suck them dry, then I would look at these cases very different. Like I said though, my life as a renter was more than great, and so for every renter that lived by the means that I did when I rented, I am ok with a capitalist taking money from them to give to the people who are truly suffering. I'm very okay with that.
If you disagree with this, that's fine - I am definitely not going to argue it though. I am under the impression that you're more concerned with discussing/arguing/contemplating such topics, as opposed to proactively doing something to help those. Perhaps I am wrong though, I don't know you. You just seem to get off being an asshole, and arguing about it. As for myself, I aspire to be like the people in the examples I provided, and I aspire and continue to strive to be big apart of new and established nonprofit organizations that go out and help those who going through very real pains due to the lack of necessities such as food, medicine, shelter, etc. If it makes me a bad person because I am exploiting those with such first world problems like having to rent properties that have ac, heating, clean carpets, multiple bathrooms and running water (hot, warm & cold) so that I can use that money to provide to people going through much worse, then so be it. I am okay with that opinion, and I respect it. Unfortunately, I don't know a better way.
What I don't get is why you stand behind such noble causes, but yet come across as an asshole who tries to abuse and harass people who you feel to be beneath you in virtue/ideals/beliefs/intellect, etc. You appear to be a pretty smart person, if your character matched your values then you seem like a person who could do a lot of good, and probably find a way to do it without hurting others too much if at all. But maybe you already are doing such, what do I know.
