Which is more of a hack 2?

[Nox]

So let me get this straight,  you wouldnt have a problem with adding a maphack to war2?  You would consider it a "cool update"?  In order to ADD something to war2combat,  it must first be determined if it's a HACK or BEFORE it comes in.  If it is a hack,  then it should absolutely NEVER be added.  Ever.  Because it would ruin the game.  A prime example of how war2 was ruined (by blizzard themselves) was when they "fixed" the lumber bug.  An example of how War2combat ruined war2 was when they made the black to pink hack a main stream thing.  To AVOID these things in the future,  then we need to vet whatever goes into the install profile and simply not allow anything that is considered a "hack" BEFORE it was added.  Not after.  If you only look at it AFTER,  then it's already to late.  You've ruined the game.

I will have a probleme whit adding map hack to the game because it's not fun anymore, the fog bring us that funny part where we have to scout and make strategie from there.. So no i will not want to add it to the game, but it dont change the fact that if we add it its not a hack anymore. Because everyone will have it and it will bring no advantage to nobody… That dont mean because everyone use map hack and you suck with it it's a hack, that just mean you suck.

Period!

Same thing with chop bar, thats dont mean because you scare of being beat by a newb who use chop bar it's an hack, thats just mean you suck.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

Yeah, you can’t just go adding hacks, things that offer distinct advantages, and say “anyone can use it.” People who don’t use those things will be disadvantaged and have a hard time competing. It only makes sense if it’s a setting that can be set to on or off by the game host that is then given to everyone.

Black2pink is the best comparison to the chop meter but I still see it more as a debug, like tk said, than any sort of game mechanic addition or enhancement, like the chop meter. It does give the user some advantage but that’s why we rolled it out for everyone with Combat.

[{Lance}]

So how do you STOP the maphack from becoming a part of the Install profile of war2combat.  Do you label it as a HACK or do you label it as an UPDATE.  The point here is that it's not to late to REMOVE the chop meter.  Not enough people have it yet.  So there is still time to remove it because IT IS A HACK and it WILL ruin a very integral part of the game.  Just like fixing the lumber bug and black to pink patch did.  I would rather NOT repeat those mistakes of the past.  There are plenty of other things we can do to improve war2 than adding hacks under the guise of "its just an update".

I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.

[Nox]

You forgot one thing.  The color black is built into the game and it doesnt give you the same color in EVERY game.  It's completely random.  Not forgetting that your opponent is black and that you need to PAY ATTENTION,  is a skill.  One which died well before you were in War2 so I dont expect you to understand it much.

We dont cares if it's build in the game, it dont mean because satan have been created with the world i have to like him and respect him.

This is not because something is random that mean it's fair… Black color it's totally rigged and there nothing fair to play against black, we dont cares about the random part, it just not fair.

If the original Warcraft 2 is what that miss you then go back there where nobody play anymore, same for fucking gog, war2ru have save Warcraft II by being what we are today, by doing our own updates, our own version, our own ladder.

We are not Warcraft II, we are war2ru combat, do you understand that?

[Nox]

Yeah, you can’t just go adding hacks, things that offer distinct advantages, and say “anyone can use it.” People who don’t use those things will be disadvantaged and have a hard time competing. It only makes sense if it’s a setting that can be set to on or off by the game host that is then given to everyone.

Black2pink is the best comparison to the chop meter but I still see it more as a debug, like tk said, than any sort of game mechanic addition or enhancement, like the chop meter. It does give the user some advantage but that’s why we rolled it out for everyone with Combat.

Do you really fucking told me if you see swift and sg doing 1v1 and they have both that chop bar, one of them will really use it??

Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

We have no time to check that kind of stuff, we know it by instinc and we dont cares at all if bobococo using it against us!

Only newbe cry about it and they are all beatead fort to hall against pro players, every pro players know this things is useless in competitive match and only newbee will enjoy of it, stop fucking kidding me bro.

[iL]

I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.

I'd say the safe thing was to debate about it before Lambchops released it. Since he released it months ago, some people began to use that and others didn't

Adding that into combat was one of ways to find balance between those who know about it and those who don't know.
Another possible way was to call chop bars a hack, deny it and add these chop bars to antihack to let people know if someone uses it.

Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.

[Nox]

So how do you STOP the maphack from becoming a part of the Install profile of war2combat.  Do you label it as a HACK or do you label it as an UPDATE.  The point here is that it's not to late to REMOVE the chop meter.  Not enough people have it yet.  So there is still time to remove it because IT IS A HACK and it WILL ruin a very integral part of the game.  Just like fixing the lumber bug and black to pink patch did.  I would rather NOT repeat those mistakes of the past.  There are plenty of other things we can do to improve war2 than adding hacks under the guise of "its just an update".

I dont know if Lambhax slipped that in without iL realizing it or not but whatever the case,  the SAFE thing to do is to remove it first,  then debate about it, and THEN add it if its clear that the majority thinks its cool (like what happened with the black to pink patch).  A crap ton of debate went into adding it.  And that wasnt even a game changing hack like the chop meter is,  it was just a freaking visual fix.  I have learned to live with b2p but I still wish it didnt exist.  It ruined a whole part of my enjoyment of war2 forever.  So did fixing the lumber bug.

Putting your knowledge of this game above a bar chop is a fucking shame, your a total newbe bro lol

[{Lance}]

Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.

If there is a RELIABLE way to prevent people using things like this,  then adding it to the list of detected hacks and removing it from the current install profile is the right thing to do.  Just because Lambhax released it before it went into combat IS NOT a good reason to add it.  Using the same logic,  we could add the maphack too.  But we dont.  We instead add it to a list of hacks and say if you are caught with XYZ,  you are reprimanded with ABC.  If you have to lock the server to only the war2combat client, I dont think anyone would complain if the end result is that they can be assured that no one is using the known hacks.  It would make stopping these types of hacks MUCH easier. 

Lambhax has done some decent things,  but the chop meter isnt one of them.

[Nox]

Also not a problem to follow that way in a week or a month later: to release new combat, new antihack and deny combat with enabled chop bars to join.

If there is a RELIABLE way to prevent people using things like this,  then adding it to the list of detected hacks and removing it from the current install profile is the right thing to do.  Just because Lambhax released it before it went into combat IS NOT a good reason to add it.  Using the same logic,  we could add the maphack too.  But we dont.  We instead add it to a list of hacks and say if you are caught with XYZ,  you are reprimanded with ABC.  If you have to lock the server to only the war2combat client, I dont think anyone would complain if the end result is that they can be assured that no one is using the known hacks.  It would make stopping these types of hacks MUCH easier. 

Lambhax has done some decent things,  but the chop meter isnt one of them.

Fuck that no, there a pool, let this pool going, community will choose it, not a random bunch of newbes who cant stand the new competition, you maybe have a low brain and scare of a bar chop, but if its really something important i would love to adapt to it, im a man of challenge, not a robot on my eternal pattern, not my fault if you cant adapt to anything.

Let that pool goes.

[jordan4385]

Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

Loool nox come on man... let me spell this one out for you

IF YOU NEED TO PULL CHOPPERS, PULL CHOPPERS THAT HAVE THE LOWEST CHOP METER, AS TO INCREASE YOUR WOOD.

Your resource control is shit nox.  anyone above a B+ level is watching choppers to see when they can pull them into gold after they finish bringing in the wood.

[Incos]

This is s great resource for any new player. This will make newbies better.  With many years of high level play behind me, I can say that this won’t make a difference for us pros

[Nox]

Men your so delusional, actually any skill rated pro player who will start to use this thing gonna start to suck hard!!!

Loool nox come on man... let me spell this one out for you

IF YOU NEED TO PULL CHOPPERS, PULL CHOPPERS THAT HAVE THE LOWEST CHOP METER, AS TO INCREASE YOUR WOOD.

Your resource control is shit nox.  anyone above a B+ level is watching choppers to see when they can pull them into gold after they finish bringing in the wood.

Yeah sure bro, told me that when you beat sg with 2 hasted dragons.

[Available]

What a storm in a teacup.

I thought almost same ("what a *hack") until i tested it.

In the form as it is implemented for now, they do not give a big advantage, but much more newbie-friendly:
it works with a decent delay,
an experienced player will still make things faster.

I'm agree with Cel, good thing is to know who use mod.



What is really impermissible is to add HP-bars.
------>
Save your strength to fight against HP-bars, which can REALLY ruin the game.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

The people have spoken and it's a hack!  Boom!

The only thing polling even close is complete nihilism of "nothing is a hack," lol.

I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.

But I just think including it with this version of Combat and forcing unwilling people to use it or play against it is a bad idea.  I hope we can remove it from the installer.

[{Lance}]

I'm kind of dumbfounded that people would think nothing is a hack heh.  I dont understand that type of logic.  Like,  why would a maphack not be considered a hack?  Why would unlimited levels not be a hack?  The way I see it,  if you selected that option,  you're actually FOR adding a maphack to the realm of possibilities because when you say nothing is a hack,  then literally the sky is the limit.  That would never fly,  why would someone want to chose that as an option?  I saw iL was the first person to select it and I was floored.  I was like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?  iL is FOR hacks?

The one thing I DONT want to see is for war2 to turn into a Total Conversion and then war2 ceases to exist.  If a TC is your goal,  then you should be looking at Wargus,  not War2 lol.  With Wargus you wouldnt need to nigger rig everything.  You could literally code it natively because the source code for Wargus is completely public.  It already has health bars, chop counters, new units, new races, new tilesets, new sounds,  HUGE resolutions (only limited by your GPU and Monitor),  Queueing,  Rally points, unlimited unit selections, hotkeys, and all the "modern goodies"..... BUT.  It's not war2.  It's Wargus.  Similar to and based off War2, but it is NOT war2.  And it's not just a single player game either.  You can play wargus multiplayer on Metaservers,  the server for stratugus engine games.  They have a whole following thats completely separate from our War2 community although its FAR smaller.  There might even be a few Wargus players among us,  but I suspect not.  Would be interesting to find out though.  They could probably tell us what I already know.  War2 and Wargus are NOT the same thing.  But with SOME of these (not all, some of your shit is good Lambhax) modifications that Lambhax is making,  I see him trying to push War2 to become another Wargus.

Do not attempt to turn war2 into another stratagus/wargus project.  Thats an asinine idea.  Why re-invent the wheel?  If the sky is the limit,  then the project for you is Wargus.  You dont need to re-invent everything that they've already done.  Notice in the video below that it has chop counters and a CRAP ton of other modern modifications.  I do NOT want to play war2 like this.  This turns it into something more like SC2 than War2.

For those that dont know what wargus is,  you can see it in action here:

Warcraft 2 Wargus 4v4 naval warfare - YouTube and the install is here video here:

Latest Stratagus and Wargus Installation instructional Video - YouTube  But I know that iL and most everyone here should already know what it is.  It's been around for years.