beating bloodlust

[Warbux]

@magetower IMO most, if not all, of the imbalance comes down to game speed.

"Normal" speed, which I presume was what the designers were basing the game around, is to us now all but unplayably slow. These days almost all games are played at "Extra Fast" (= slow) or "Fastest" (= fast) speeds, but at lower speeds the human counters to the brute-force of lust become realistically usable.

Take lust vs heal as an example:

The HUGE difference between these two is that lust can be cast first before engaging, then you can pretty much send the ogres into battle and forget about it (although microing always helps), however you can't cast heal on a healthy unit, so you must wait until after the battle has started then attempt to heal your units in-between them getting punched by ogres.

This is quite feasible at "Normal" speed, but all but impossible at EF speed, let alone F.

The same can be said of microing other human spell-based counters like slow or flame-shield.


Actually, feeding into the current game-mods discussion, IMO this would be about the only decent argument for any sort of automation that I can think of, as auto-healing would bring the balance back closer to what the designers intended when they were originally testing the game on slower speeds.... (N.B. I am not actually suggesting we should do this, just musing).

thankyou some 1 finally gets it

we have auto healing exe's we tried out for testing but .. i dont htink thats the answer
at most i think all we need to do is make slow cost less... so a mage can slow more ogies.. ya theyll still be 1.5x faster but its good enough imo

[tk[as]]

humans will never beat bloodlust.

why are we still talking about it

[shesycompany]

3 flames who can pull it off not mehh

[Szwagier]

@magetower IMO most, if not all, of the imbalance comes down to game speed.

"Normal" speed, which I presume was what the designers were basing the game around, is to us now all but unplayably slow. These days almost all games are played at "Extra Fast" (= slow) or "Fastest" (= fast) speeds, but at lower speeds the human counters to the brute-force of lust become realistically usable.

Take lust vs heal as an example:

The HUGE difference between these two is that lust can be cast first before engaging, then you can pretty much send the ogres into battle and forget about it (although microing always helps), however you can't cast heal on a healthy unit, so you must wait until after the battle has started then attempt to heal your units in-between them getting punched by ogres.

This is quite feasible at "Normal" speed, but all but impossible at EF speed, let alone F.

The same can be said of microing other human spell-based counters like slow or flame-shield.


Actually, feeding into the current game-mods discussion, IMO this would be about the only decent argument for any sort of automation that I can think of, as auto-healing would bring the balance back closer to what the designers intended when they were originally testing the game on slower speeds.... (N.B. I am not actually suggesting we should do this, just musing).

thankyou some 1 finally gets it

we have auto healing exe's we tried out for testing but .. i dont htink thats the answer
at most i think all we need to do is make slow cost less... so a mage can slow more ogies.. ya theyll still be 1.5x faster but its good enough imo

GL with clicking with slow while 9 ogres with bl when are moving

[shesycompany]

slow is pretty good..fixed mana at 50... 3 mages can get it off pretty good.. if u dont wanna dmg urself with blizzard

1.5 is no where near as dmg of 3

[Szwagier]

slow is pretty good..fixed mana at 50... 3 mages can get it off pretty good.. if u dont wanna dmg urself with blizzard

1.5 is no where near as dmg of 3

If you got 3 mages why dont you just blizzard them? You prefer waste all mana to slow them and lost still knights ??

[shesycompany]

well we are talking about non blizz/dnd ...  shure lets just mage bomb them.. lust solved 

[shesycompany]

there is one strat ...canons and pelads with exo..i bet u could pull it off u8...im not there yet i got to play to evolve..no dk's and u still got a use of a mage is a hell of a power  advantage..

lets say they gonna make some dragons to take out the canons..np flame shielded knights will take them out..humasn still have a more powerful late game than no brainer lust'n go

would you quit war2 if you couldnt use orcs 

thats why woofy is secretly my hero.best human i ever seen

[Warbux]

1 thing i found useful is being quicker... humans can win if they strike fast an first.... usually they got there ogies choked infront of there base.. u bring a mage an blizzzard that choke... ogies dead wide oepn for knights to run on in.. it has worked for me a number of times giving me a win over orcs.. it jus doesnt work if the person is map hackin .. cuz ofc hell see the mage coming an send a "scout" out to kill it even if u got knights ouit protecting it hell manage to get it

[shesycompany]

yeah thats kinda what im finding..i use the sappers and whatever low level foots alot

[Chevalier2000]

Bloodlust have 2 issues, it's too powerfull (it should only give like 50% more damage) and it cost only 50 mana to cast it. With 50 mana the paladin can only heal 8hp... think about that. The bloodlust should cost at least 150 mana and the heal should only cost 3 mana per hp and/or give a 1 hp temporary shield per 3 mana.
and even with shield or 3 mana per hp, 2 bloodlusted ogres will still win vs 2 paladins. Let's say the paladin are full mana and ogres the same, they cast bloodlust and attack. The paladins cast shield (+85hp) on each other. Let's say the basic attaque is 1 dmg per second. So the 2 bloodlustted ogres do a total of 90+85(shield)=175hp damage in 29.2s, while the 2 paladins only do 58 damage. Then the 1st paladin die, the 2nd will even die before the 1st ogre die...