The Superiority of Islam

[3bdushakur]

This is entertaining! lol

No one has evidence that the stars are missles to attack the shayateen except for Allah (in the Qur'an), Who teaches men about that which they do not know through revelation.

This is golden!!! I had no idea that Mohammed had stated such a thing!

The beauty of the dark ages... Destroy all knowledge and convince people about everything...

By the way only Arab Christians (such as Egyptians) use Allah to refer to God
Allah is not a name it literally means The God.

The name of god in the aforementioned religions originates from Jewish and if u want to get an idea about it you can start from here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God#Judaism).

It is also very funny to know how we have believers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam thinking that the believe a different god :-D

These three religions believe to the same god... Which refer it as the One True God...

Now, lets return to the topic: The superiority of Islam...
In my limited knowledge about religions (haven't read the Quran, I have read the old Testimony and I was forced to more or less read the new Testimony).
I have studied several survey articles that discuss several different religions. (Including Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, different factions of Christianity, Islam, old religions)
I have a quite extensive historical knowledge.
And I have lived in a rather multi-religious environment and societies.

So first my personal opinion without facts and full of bias: The SUPERIOR religion of them all is the LACK OF RELIGION...

A bit of facts: The biggest crimes in history where made in the name of GOD. Religion takes out the worst of people. More or less what do to
The rise of religions (Christianity, Islam) in the ancient world meant the collapse of civilization the lost of knowledge and the return of human life standard to the equivalent of an APE.

If I would change something historically, it would be the appearance of the prophets... Just send a terminator: Terminator Vs Jesus HD The Greatest Action Story Ever Told Mad Tv 1996 - YouTube

Millions of people would not have died, we would be 400-500 years technologically more advanced. And most probably we would be much more peaceful...

Is it the fault of the prophets? Of course not... But give a weapon that controls the masses and that is what happens.

Now to some more hard core evidence:

To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true. --Aristotle

With this simple sentence, Aristotle proved all religions to be false! Not a single one survived :-D (Perhaps Buddhism is the only one that might not be falsified)

Explanation: Buddhism, is not a religion it is a philosophy for the Metaphysical. Buddha does not refer to any God or superior being, only says that we should search for inner enlightenment.
While, I have not read all of the Buddhist texts, it is possible that the state nothing that is false, thus Buddhism is not falsified.

Being not falsified does not necessarily make something true. It could simply be unproven...
Then I would need to explain u the incompleteness theorem... But that is too complicated for simpletons that believe stuff like:

No one has evidence that the stars are missles to attack the shayateen except for Allah (in the Qur'an), Who teaches men about that which they do not know through revelation.

Or that believe that the Earth is flat, we haven't went to the moon, etc...

Now, as it is clear for me that Religion it self is inferior and that we should abolish it... Let me try to choose a Superior religion among the ones that I have some knowledge for...

I will define superiority based one three (3) different categories:
1) Creation of the world (best story)
2) Promotion of ethics (love, hate, equality)
3) Enlightenment for Believer/Society (Self development, freedom, evolution)

For (1)
Christianity, Islam, Judaism would score the same... The have the same story more or less.
Hinduism is very rich in stories, I barely know a few of them... But I do believe is richer than the other religions. (Probably they should earn the highest score here).
Buddhism gets its stories from real peoples lives and makes an allegory out of them.
Ohh and let me mention the best of them all: There exists 1 religion (has some small variations) that has the most AMAZING stories among them all.
The stories are based in Cosmogony and describe Astronomical events. The more Historians study them, the more the have to turn to science to understand them. Or in other words, the need to read Physics and just name entities of events in Physics or other sciences fields and the get the stories!

Quoting Wikipedia:
Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[14] This singularity indicates that general relativity is not an adequate description of the laws of physics in this regime. Models based on general relativity alone can not extrapolate toward the singularity beyond the end of the Planck epoch.

This primordial singularity is itself sometimes called "the Big Bang",[15] but the term can also refer to a more generic early hot, dense phase[16][notes 1] of the universe. In either case, "the Big Bang" as an event is also colloquially referred to as the "birth" of our universe since it represents the point in history where the universe can be verified to have entered into a regime where the laws of physics as we understand them (specifically general relativity and the standard model of particle physics) work.

And the myth:
In the beginning was an emptiness called Chaos - the yawning gap. Then Earth -or Gaia- sprang, without parents, into being. Her broad bosom provided a sturdy seat for the gods to come. And suddenly there appeared Eros, the fairest of immortals. At his touch bodies melt; he destroys will and reason, not only for humans but even for gods. In the beginning, then, were these all-powerful three.

Chaos is the infinite emptiness, Gaia is the singularity, Eros is the infinite density and temperature...

Wow the Big Bang theory from 4000BC?~WTF...

For (2)
Islam would score very low on this category...
Christianity is somewhere in the middle.
Judaism scores well within Hebrews (The chosen people) and bad for the others...
Buddhism is very high on this being the only religion that has not even raised weapons towards their enemies... (Wait for it there is even better)
Brahma based Hinduism would score pretty well
Kali based Hinduism would score pretty bad
lol the beauty of Hinduism, it super contains almost all other religions.

Wait, is love and pacifism the nature of Man??? If it was then the highest score would be on Buddhism...
But the reality lies elsewhere... One religion, accepted man as is! And deified all its characteristics. Man has love, care, peace, wisdom but also has hatred, sexual distortion, war, foolishness, inside him. Rejecting/oppressing all that is not healthy... Wait is this psychology??? Oh you guessed what religion I'm referring too?

(3) Well here, almost all prevailing religions mess up...
For Christianism you need to check Hermits. And yes all religions have their equivalent.
Only Buddhism is actively promoting believer and society enlightenment. All others care more about believers following the rules... (Well taxes pay the bills).

The "Old Religion" did promoted society enlightenment and some individual one. But truthfully we miss some of the details for me to be able to score it.
One thing I can say for sure, is that it was a religion of equality and love much more than what some religions claim.
Some indications for that: 12 gods (6 male, 6 female) Still it was a patriarch based religion with Zeus being the Father and leader of all. An element that was also reflected to the society.

Intellectual the wisest the Goddess of knowledge was Athena! A female god that was borne by the head of Zeus.
Balance always was represented in female figures, while strength in male ones.

Now about love, it is enough to mention that one of the three primordial gods is Love it self (Eros).
But further than that, it is much more important to mention that as a religion it accepted love in all forms: Love for oneself, for family, for the same gender, for animals, for items, for arts for everything. While the Judaism based religions only accept love for God and human and not for anything else.

Oh damn, I revealed the mystery religion :-P

Lets now see the flames of truth spread!
Holy inquisition and Jihad entering in our discussions :-D

You holy slayers, butchers of Science and Enlightenment bring it on :-D

Allah الله is a Proper noun, it is Gods Name. Al-Ilah الإله means The God and is not a name.
How can you talk about knowledge when you lack basic coprehension of the Arabic language, which is one of the worlds most spoken languages?

Anyway, the Jews know that their Lord is Allah, and the Christians of the past knew this as well, today it's a different story. Even the pagans of the past knew what the people today do not know.

Allah says:

And if you (O Muhammad) ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth," they will certainly say: "Allah." Say: "All the praises and thanks be to Allah!" But most of them know not. [31:25]

This verse was referring to the People of the Book and the pagans of his time, because they all knew what you don't know today. If this was a false statement during his time, no one would have followed it.

Allah says about the Jews:

And when they (Jews) meet those who believe (Muslims), they say, "We believe", but when they meet one another in private, they say, "Shall you (Jews) tell them (Muslims) what Allah has revealed to you [Jews, about the description and the qualities of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him , that which are written in the Taurat (Torah)] , that they (Muslims) may argue with you (Jews) about it before your Lord?" Have you (Jews) then no understanding? [2:76]

It is primarily the modern day Christian that believes that their god is different (which he is if they say Jesus is their Lord and Savior, in which case, the Muslims do not worship man), the Jews did and perhaps still do, as Allah says:

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." [9:31]

As for what Allah says regarding the stars:

And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the Shayatin (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire. [67:5]

This is a statement of truth which you have no knowledge of to speak or debate as this is information regarding the unseen. No one has any authority on this subject and this is explains the purpose of stars, as decorations and as a means to prevent the shayateen from ascending to the heavens:

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that: The Prophet said: "When Allah decrees a matter in heaven, the angels beat their wings in submission to his decree (with a sound) like a chain beating a rock. Then "When fear is banished from their hearts, they say: 'What is it that your Lord has said?' They say: 'The truth. And He is The Most High, The Most Great." He said: 'Then the eavesdroppers (from among the jinn) listen out for that, one above the other, so (one of them) hears the words and passes it on to the one beneath him. The Shihab (shooting star) may strike him before he can pass it on to the one beneath him and the latter can pass it on to the soothsayer or sorcerer, or it may not strike him until he has passed it on. And he ads one hundred lies to it, and only that word which was overheard from the heavens is true." [Ibn Majah V.1 B.1, no 194, saheeh]

And your open display of disbelief is what seperates us. Because you deny Allah's verses and we affirm them, so if anyone committed any crimes it is in denial of Allah's Names. perhaps incidents like these http://sen.com/news/meteor-strike-on-iss-is-reminder-of-cosmic-hazard are warning signs, and how many of these go unreported? Only Allah knows.

After this point you went off on a tangent about religions you have no knowledge off (obviously based on guess work and commonly held stereotypes), which you admitted to prior to even giving personal opinions, and again, you went on about Hinduism, and ignored my question from the other post:

Do you worship cows, rats and monkeys? Or do you worship penises and menses blood? Do you marry your women to K-9's because she is born with a devil? Do you spend your "holy" time smoking ganja and hasheesh (this is probably it right here)? Philosophies, or philosophistries as I like to call them are empty ideologies that attempt to use religious principles to pass off as deeper contemplations, which, in reality, is nothing but theory and guess work of ignoramuses.

How Hinduism and Buddhism are advanced systems to you is an odd position. I mean, how do you base this, how do you have such knowledge of Hinduism but fail to acknowledge their disgusting practices, claim to have no knowledge of Islam but conclude your opinions on ignorance and then somehow try to lump it in with Judaism and Christianity? You don't even have knowledge of Arabic and decided to speak on it with authority and blundered terribly and even worse, you lack a grasp on basic English grammar and spelling...(confused_Jackie_Chan.gif)

I don't understand in what way your approach is percieved as an intellectual methodology to derive knowledge from.

[3bdushakur]

@Igognito

I suggest you opininate less and study more, as the teachers used to say when ever the kids would make assumptions:

When you assume, you make an ass out of 'u' and 'me'

[Igognito]

Lol, you are attacking me but none of my arguments...

So you simply accept bitter defeat 

1) I'm not a native English speaker. Still, I'm pretty confident that what grammar errors I might do are pretty limited and the meaning still passes through.
2) You do not know what I know, and still you claim I not know stuff that I might know.

About Hinduism, I'm personally not a Hindu but I have been in the presence of Brahma Hindu priests (even better monks) and have discussed about creation and their philosophy with them.
I'm not a Buddhist but I have read a bit about it and I was amazed of how much similar (in ethics) it was with Plato.
I'm not a Christian but I grew as an Orthodox Christian and had in school plenty of Christian brain washing and teachings.
I'm not a Muslim but I have read about the History of Arabs and Ottoman Empire, I also had a lot of Muslim friends (some religious some not but none an expert).
I'm not a Jew and I have almost zero knowledge about them, only know some historical facts
I'm not a Pagan (of any form) neither do I believe to the Twelve Gods of Olympus. But I have extensively studied the Greek Mythology and Greek Cosmogony, furthermore, I have read historical and philosophical analysis about it. I have also up to a limited point studied the Viking Mythology. But I do not feel it is such an advance set of belief to use it in this discussion.

But more of all, I have studied History!

So now, that I have established u a bit about me... Try to target my arguments and not me :-P

Try to give arguments why Islam is superior than other religions (that u know) on the three categories I gave.
If you do not like those categories, then please introduce new ones...

By the way, there is one thing that Islam does better: Polygamy!
For some weird reason Islam accepted the nature of man to be polygamous but for an equally weird reason they didnt accept the nature of woman to be polygamous too... Damn that was close... So even there Islam fails.

[3bdushakur]

Lol, you are attacking me but none of my arguments...

So you simply accept bitter defeat 

1) I'm not a native English speaker. Still, I'm pretty confident that what grammar errors I might do are pretty limited and the meaning still passes through.
2) You do not know what I know, and still you claim I not know stuff that I might know.

About Hinduism, I'm personally not a Hindu but I have been in the presence of Brahma Hindu priests (even better monks) and have discussed about creation and their philosophy with them.
I'm not a Buddhist but I have read a bit about it and I was amazed of how much similar (in ethics) it was with Plato.
I'm not a Christian but I grew as an Orthodox Christian and had in school plenty of Christian brain washing and teachings.
I'm not a Muslim but I have read about the History of Arabs and Ottoman Empire, I also had a lot of Muslim friends (some religious some not but none an expert).
I'm not a Jew and I have almost zero knowledge about them, only know some historical facts
I'm not a Pagan (of any form) neither do I believe to the Twelve Gods of Olympus. But I have extensively studied the Greek Mythology and Greek Cosmogony, furthermore, I have read historical and philosophical analysis about it. I have also up to a limited point studied the Viking Mythology. But I do not feel it is such an advance set of belief to use it in this discussion.

But more of all, I have studied History!

So now, that I have established u a bit about me... Try to target my arguments and not me :-P

Try to give arguments why Islam is superior than other religions (that u know) on the three categories I gave.
If you do not like those categories, then please introduce new ones...

By the way, there is one thing that Islam does better: Polygamy!
For some weird reason Islam accepted the nature of man to be polygamous but for an equally weird reason they didnt accept the nature of woman to be polygamous too... Damn that was close... So even there Islam fails.

"bitter defaet"? My man, you must be confused, but based on your comments, I can see why.

The reason I "attacked" your grammar was because if you are going to put yourself in the position of teacher, you need to learn how to commnicate correctly. And if you cannot communicate correctly, then how can you be confident enough to teach, ESPECIALLY, when you said you do not know anything about Islam.

Second of all, you are not the only one who has spoken to and met thes sorts of individuals.

And their personal opinions do not represent their creeds. The text is what does that. So, like I told Baby Shark, you are either going to debate using your books, and citing the info, or not. I used the Qur'an to establish and assert the title of this thread.

If you would like to build an argument, bring your books, not your personal opinions. If your books have the answer, then there should be no problem in citing them where need-be. History is biased, as is commonly said that history is written by the victor, not the one who lost. Except that when it comes to religion, the text itself affirms or denies the claims of the claimants, as the authentic hadeeth goes:

On the authority of Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: Were people to be given everything that they claimed, men would [unjustly] claim the wealth and lives of [other] people. But, the onus of proof is upon the claimant, and the taking of an oath is upon him who denies. A hasan hadeeth narrated by al-Baihaqee and others in this form, and part of it is in the two Saheehs - from Imaam An-Nawawis 40 hadeeth

I have brought my proof to establish the fact, and the Qur'aan and Sunnah are sufficient proof, and if you are uncertain or ignorant of these matters, then it is only you, as I and those who know know.

Also, claiming you studied does not make you a qualified expert, since history can be ambiguious unless there is certain knowledge. Also, who are your teachers? Whther I know them or not is irrelevant, investigation will produce results. Who did you learn history from and how can you verify the authenticity of what you claimed to have learned?

As for your points, they are erroneous and that alone invalidates the argument because the points you made are based on guess work.

As for polygamy, yes, a man is allowed to marry 4 women, and women are not allowed to marry more than one man because the woman is the one who is provided for, she is not the provider. A man who is maintained by his woman is an effeminate man, and a woman that sleeps around is known as a whore (or a prostitute is she does it for money). The woman's purpose is defined by the Shari'ah, not by the general masses.

Feminism is an incompatible ideology in Islam.

And the way you present yourself is childish, like that last bit about polygamy, not to mention your simplistic and vague understanding of religion and purpose, as for history, that is merely a claim.

I established my claim, brought my proof from the source, the Qur'an and the Sunnah. If you want to argue about it, produce your books, if you have none, then what arguemtn do you have? Your word?

[3bdushakur]

@Igognito

Again, you claim to have sat with such and such and discussed matters of cosmology, and claim to have knowledge of Arab and Ottoman history (which is not Islam), claim to have some Muslim friends (who knows what they're upon?), you said you were raised in an Orthodox Christian school and were "brainwashed", what Orthodox Christian school? Where? Can I look it up to get more info as to what kind of Christian school this is, so I can get more insight into your position? You say you know nothing about Judaism, except for historical facts. Such as what? Because I can make the same claim. As for the pagan bit, I don't care.

Paganism is the scourge of mankind, and is the antithesis to Monotheism, it also retards human intellect and compartmentalizes it, as opposed to pure Monotheism that is Whole and in effect makes the mind and soul whole. Paganism is based on worship of the unseen through the creation or worship of the creation, which is finite rendering all paganism null and void as a foundation for human progression.

My OP was the argument, but you have yet to address that. Instead, you did what Baby Shark did and went on a different course, not once addressing the content I posted. You came out of left field posing as an authority, failing to directly address the topic of the post.

Which, if you and Baby Shark would have read, would have realized the futility of your responses.

[Igognito]

Well if I do not accept the Quran as a reliable source and you do not accept Historical and Philosophical books as a reliable source we are on a dead lock...

If you want historical references I can give u a few, the problem with me is that I read from paper books... Which after I read them I store them in my warehouse at Greece. So referring you to the exact books means that I will need to return to Greece, go to the warehouse and find the books. (By the way right now I live in Italy).

Anyhow, about historical books related with our discussion:

I would suggest you to first start from a Historical book about Salah ad-Din. From my personal point of view one of the best Muslim leaders to start your historical studies.
Try to study both the events and his personal education.

Now after you get a grasp of Salah ad-Din, I suggest you get to read a book about the Arab Sultanates and all the small empires that where founded in the period of: ~600-1200. Before the Ottoman Empire.
For those I have read one book (which as I mentioned is somewhere lost in my warehouse) but if you study you will see all of them have 1 common thing. And that is specifically the control of a collection of books that moves from one library to another. (If I remember well the Arabs refer to it as the House of Wisdom)

Now, it can be a coincidence or it can be not...
Around 650AD, Muslims take control of Alexandria. Around 700AD The House of Wisdom appears...

From the beginning of the Muslim world there is a myth about a two horned man (Dhul-Qarnayn I googled that because I didnt remembered it).

Have you visited any Arab country? You will find his Statue and Image in almost all of them (At least I found it in the two I have visited).

In brief, like in Christianity similarly in Islam the mass is kept brainwashed and uneducated but the few leaders have access to 'The House of Wisdom' or to refer it with the real name: The remnants of Alexandria's Library.

The access to the ancient worlds knowledge (especially math and philosophy) is enough to elevate nations to Empires!

And we have to thank a few floods, fires and two Religions for the loss of the Library...

From Civilization to the Dark Ages to later again Enlightenment...

2 Religions brought the human kind at least 500 years behind in technological and scientific advancement and you speak about superiority???

And this conclusion you can have it by studying Arab history, you do not even need to look at western sources...

ps: My time is limited I might continue answering with other points when time allows....

[3bdushakur]

Well if I do not accept the Quran as a reliable source and you do not accept Historical and Philosophical books as a reliable source we are on a dead lock...

If you want historical references I can give u a few, the problem with me is that I read from paper books... Which after I read them I store them in my warehouse at Greece. So referring you to the exact books means that I will need to return to Greece, go to the warehouse and find the books. (By the way right now I live in Italy).

Anyhow, about historical books related with our discussion:

I would suggest you to first start from a Historical book about Salah ad-Din. From my personal point of view one of the best Muslim leaders to start your historical studies.
Try to study both the events and his personal education.

Now after you get a grasp of Salah ad-Din, I suggest you get to read a book about the Arab Sultanates and all the small empires that where founded in the period of: ~600-1200. Before the Ottoman Empire.
For those I have read one book (which as I mentioned is somewhere lost in my warehouse) but if you study you will see all of them have 1 common thing. And that is specifically the control of a collection of books that moves from one library to another. (If I remember well the Arabs refer to it as the House of Wisdom)

Now, it can be a coincidence or it can be not...
Around 650AD, Muslims take control of Alexandria. Around 700AD The House of Wisdom appears...

From the beginning of the Muslim world there is a myth about a two horned man (Dhul-Qarnayn I googled that because I didnt remembered it).

Have you visited any Arab country? You will find his Statue and Image in almost all of them (At least I found it in the two I have visited).

In brief, like in Christianity similarly in Islam the mass is kept brainwashed and uneducated but the few leaders have access to 'The House of Wisdom' or to refer it with the real name: The remnants of Alexandria's Library.

The access to the ancient worlds knowledge (especially math and philosophy) is enough to elevate nations to Empires!

And we have to thank a few floods, fires and two Religions for the loss of the Library...

From Civilization to the Dark Ages to later again Enlightenment...

2 Religions brought the human kind at least 500 years behind in technological and scientific advancement and you speak about superiority???

And this conclusion you can have it by studying Arab history, you do not even need to look at western sources...

ps: My time is limited I might continue answering with other points when time allows....

Philosophy is not a reliable source for anything and no one ever denied historical books. You just never provided any sources and still failed to provide them with the excuse that they are in some warehouse in Greece and you are in Italy, anyway, ths is the problem, you keep pressing on without producing any concrete citation for absolutely anything. No titles, no authors.

You suggested I study Salahuddin ibnul Ayyubi. Ok? As if he isn't a famous figure in Islam already, and hasn't had books on him published (I used to work for one of the largest Islamic Publication distributors and had a library before I moved out of the States, and not to an Arab country, but a Muslim country. I currently live in Cairo, Egypt.

Salahuddin ibnul Ayyubi is a good historical figure to study a part of Islamic history, but not the best. The only reason you probably think he's the best is perhaps because you are ignorant of other Islamic figures and your vision is severely limited. If you want to discuss ISLAM, then read authentic biographies of the Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), or about Abu Bakr as-Sadeeq, or Umar ibnul Khattab or, Uthman bin Affan, or Ali bin Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with them), or Muawiyyah, or you can read about the famous four Imams that the 4 schools of Jurisprudence are based on: Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Shafi'i and Imam al-Hanbali. You can also read about the compilers of the books of Hadeeth such as Imam Al-Bukhaari, Imam Muslim, Imam Abi Dawud, Imam Nasa'i, Imam at-Tirmidhi, and Imam ibn Majah.

You can also read about some more biographies of the actual companions of the Prophet aside from the first four Khulafah mentioned above, after him. Such as Bilal, Ibnul Abbas, Ibn Mas'ood, Abdullah ibn Salam, Ibn Umar, to name only  5 of them from an extensive list of companions that he had during his lifetime.

Or, you can ready biographies of famous scholars, such as Imam ibn Katheer, Ibnul Qayyim, Ibnul Jawzi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam Abdul Wahhab, Imam Barbahaari from the past to present, such as Imam as-Sa'adi, Shaykh Al-Albaani, Shaykh bin Baz, Shaykh Uthaymeen, may Allah have mercy on all of them, to living scholars such as Shaykh Rabee al Madkhali, Shaykh Khaalid Uthman, Shaykh Hassan al-Banna, Shaykh Saleh al-Fawzaan, Shaykh Raslan (as was mentioned before, and in whos villiage I was residing in for some time in Egypt), and so on. Real personalities and scholars known to the Taalibul 'Ilm (Students of Knowledge)...and these are from the most famous, I haven't mentioned any other names since, for the most part, these books you will never find in any other language but Arabic.

You told me to start with Salahuddin ibnul Ayyubi......c'mon guy.

Dhul Qarnayn is not a two honred man, what did you read? Where in the Qur'an or authentic hadeeth is there to support this nonsense? If it is not in either of these, then where does that description come from? Which "historical books" that lie?

Like I said in the other post, sultinates and monarchies are NOT from Islam. Islams authentic political and ruling party is the Khilafah and the Khalifah. Everything else is from the systems of men, so this is a bad time to start learning about Islam...but you already admitted to not knowing what you're talking about.

Islam is not like Christianity. There are no hidden libraries, we do not have a an equivalent to the Catacombs under the Vatican and hidden sources of "knowledge". Islam is open, all the books and histories are there for the people who want to know. Arabic is easy to learn for those who really want to know, nothing is hidden. You are merely talking out of your ass. You know it, I know it.

You and your philosophy. Philosophy isn't a foundation for anything, especially not to build an empire upon. Math, please, Muslims have had math on lock since they began exploring after the Arabs were guided to Islam.

You are really going to complain about 1 library in the entire world as your argument, while you keep your books in storage in Greece, supposedely while you are in Italy but can't name 1 book or 1 author (which I bet you will after this post to try to prove a point, since we can't comfirm that you simply google it).

If you really believe that the Muslims didn't invent and bring science and mathamatics with them, then I know that you are not a historian. I mean, I never thought you were, but this proves you aren't.

This conclusion that you came to you probably got ONLY from Western sources. You can't fool me, buddy. You only ever heard of Salahuddin and the Sultinate (if that). Get the hell outta here, trying to appear smart.

[Igognito]

You are really going to complain about 1 library in the entire world as your argument, while you keep your books in storage in Greece, supposedely while you are in Italy but can't name 1 book or 1 author (which I bet you will after this post to try to prove a point, since we can't comfirm that you simply google it).

I could have googled them from the previous post... But I clearly didn't do that because I wouldn't be certain which books I have and have not read.
That my books are in boxes in a warehouse at Greece and that I'm at Italy is just a fact... Not an excuse or something.
I'm a researcher and I change countries often. It is impractical and I cant afford to carry with me books that I have already read!

You are in Cairo? Great! then you can take a trip to Alexandria and see with your own eyes!
Alexandria, after Athens and before Rome was the center of civilization. Even if many traces your religion tried to remove, many have been left...

I read history books casually, I do not choose authors, I just pick ones that seem interesting for me. I read several different eras and several different civilizations.
Most proper history books, clearly state the facts (supported by historical evidence) which are unbiased and the claims (interpretations of those facts) which can be biased.

I usually make my own conclusions, and I wouldn't say that I'm specifically biased against the Arab world. Actually the complete opposite.

And Arabs are not equal with Islam. We can and should remove Islam from the Arabs. There is much more to them to be shadowed in the darkness of religion.
Similarly, Europeans must move past Christianity...

Damn, this takes time and I'm very time pressed... To be continued

[3bdushakur]

You are really going to complain about 1 library in the entire world as your argument, while you keep your books in storage in Greece, supposedely while you are in Italy but can't name 1 book or 1 author (which I bet you will after this post to try to prove a point, since we can't comfirm that you simply google it).

I could have googled them from the previous post... But I clearly didn't do that because I wouldn't be certain which books I have and have not read.
That my books are in boxes in a warehouse at Greece and that I'm at Italy is just a fact... Not an excuse or something.
I'm a researcher and I change countries often. It is impractical and I cant afford to carry with me books that I have already read!

You are in Cairo? Great! then you can take a trip to Alexandria and see with your own eyes!
Alexandria, after Athens and before Rome was the center of civilization. Even if many traces your religion tried to remove, many have been left...

I read history books casually, I do not choose authors, I just pick ones that seem interesting for me. I read several different eras and several different civilizations.
Most proper history books, clearly state the facts (supported by historical evidence) which are unbiased and the claims (interpretations of those facts) which can be biased.

I usually make my own conclusions, and I wouldn't say that I'm specifically biased against the Arab world. Actually the complete opposite.

And Arabs are not equal with Islam. We can and should remove Islam from the Arabs. There is much more to them to be shadowed in the darkness of religion.
Similarly, Europeans must move past Christianity...

Damn, this takes time and I'm very time pressed... To be continued

I read history books casually, I do not choose authors, I just pick ones that seem interesting for me.

Right.

For a researcher, you are not that good at it.

I mean, look at how you deliberately ignored everything else but that one part, because you have nothing. You don't know anything. Be quiet and save face or try to refute the original post.

[3bdushakur]

@Igognito

Real researchers scrutinize their sources. You might as well be reading tabloids.

[3bdushakur]

@Igognito

And we're back to square one.

You have failed to address the OP, have failed to provide any refutation. You just rambled basically saying, "Nuh uh!" without any substance. You completely ignored my responses to continue your "Nuh uh!"

You claim to be a reasercher but have proven yourself incompetent thus far.

You have yet to provide what "darkness" Islam has left the Arabs in. For a researcher, you couldn't even address the original post, give vague generalities without elaboration.

So let's see if you can stick to the point:

What from my original post can you actually argue with your "facts"? What, from what I have provided regarding Islam's superiority have you refuted? Address the actual thread, or take the L permanently.

[3bdushakur]

@Igognito

You know why it takes you time?

Because you have nothing and have to dig around for something off of the internet in an attempt to validate your non-responses.

See, responding to you takes less than a couple of minutes, because I type from what I know. I don't have to complain about time. As long as you keep posting and overlooking and straying away from the original post like you have strayed from Allah, I will effortlessly and systematically dismantle all your responses.

Once you have something concrete and address the actual point at hand, you carry with you the L on your back.

But I have a feeling that your arrogance is so deeply rooted that you won't even admit to the fact that you are speaking out of your ass and just give up.

This is one reason I dislike discussing religion with disbelievers, you are all the same, regurgitate the same old tired, worn out and refuted arguments. Everything you wrote is so cliché, that I am essentially wasting my time even writing this. And this is how I know for a fact that you don't read or research anything. You are lying on the internet, which is easy to do but, I can see right through my screen, your screen and you.

[Igognito]

@3bdushakur, mate I'm a researcher in a completely different field: Computational Logic. It has nothing to do with this topic. As I already said, I read history casually and nor research focused.

Furthermore, you are only cycling your self and not provide an argument that needs to be addressed. You are still trying to attack me and non of my arguments.
So I guess you should silence your self... Go pray towards the direction of Mecca or something and lean your head all the way to floor in fear of divine smite or punishment.
Because if needed I can play that game too, and you wont like it.

[3bdushakur]

@3bdushakur, mate I'm a researcher in a completely different field: Computational Logic. It has nothing to do with this topic. As I already said, I read history casually and nor research focused.

Furthermore, you are only cycling your self and not provide an argument that needs to be addressed. You are still trying to attack me and non of my arguments.
So I guess you should silence your self... Go pray towards the direction of Mecca or something and lean your head all the way to floor in fear of divine smite or punishment.
Because if needed I can play that game too, and you wont like it.

Then, stay in your field, and don't discuss topics you have no knowledge of (i.e. this one). You don't see me trying to discuss Computational Logic as if I know what I'm talking about, nor will I pretend to.

For a supposed Computation Logic researcher, you sure know how not to stick to the point. I told you a couple of times now. You either address the ORIGINAL POST, that means the opening post in this thread, and if you want to argue, then refute those points. No, instead, you decide to tell me about your books in a warehouse in Greece, your stay in Italy, some vague historical nothing without titles to books or authors or some generic statements regarding religion. Guy, you told me that Salahuddinul Ayyubi and Ottoman Sultinate were a good place to learn about Islam, no. Stay in your lane that's it.

For someone who researches Computational Logic, as you claim, it baffles me how dense your responses are. I mean, all that research into LOGIC, of all fields, should have some effect on how you percieve and analyze the world around you. But it seems to fail in this topic, just like everyone else, which proves the overall ignorance and arrogance of people.

And on my cycling myself: This is blatant projection from your part. You have cyclical defenses and responses that never addressed the ORIGINAL POST. And I know why you still keep deflecting and avoiding it, and it's because YOU CAN'T refute or argue against it. You have ZERO argument. You have NOTHING (in Nathan Explosions voice): NOOOTHIIIINNNGG!

Oh, and as for me praying towards Makkah, no need to remind me. I have a Book for that. But we do not pray out of fear, we pray and worship out of gratitutde and reverence to the Lord of all that exists. My Lord, your Lord and the Lord of all creation.

What game are you getting emotional about that you feel that you have to play, "need be"? You're getting your knickers in a bunch because you can't stick to the point? Let me guess how you are going to play this game:

1. You are going to regurgitate some lame insults towards my religion, my Lord and my Prophet, which would only expose your deep rooted ignorance, which I am already aware of (regarding this matter), so, no need to make yourself look like more of an ass.

2. You are going to talk about me (or try), which you can't because you have no knowledge about me, which will still expose even more of your ignorance.

3. What else is there? Any grammatical or spelling errors I made in this forum? I mean seriously, what are you crying about? 

No, seriously, what part of your ego did I hurt to get you all riled up like this? Where did I "insult" you, so much so that you are hurt enought to play [whatever] game "need be"? Is your ego that fragile? If it is, perhaps you should re-evaluate some aspect of your life.

They say, that sort of narcissism begins during the stages of childhood. I don't know what traumatic experience you went through, but if your ego is this fragile on the internet, I suggest you look into some therapy (if you haven't already).

[woot.]

i believe in yaweh... allah god the all father whoever he is just 1... superior of the supreme ruler guy ohh this i going towards creation.. so i believe in creation now