Should we stop all the hacking on this server?

[Lambchops]

here is a new comer point of view...

I absolutely agree. I am already planning to ask the forum admins to delete this thread later (once everyone has had their say) precisely so it does not cast the server in a bad light for newcomers.

Some info you may or may not be aware of:

I'm a regular player, not a very big deal around here as far as 'pro' players are concerned.

Szwagier aka u8t3io3p who is the current tournament winner of just about everything and has the "Grand Master" tag decided to accuse me of hacking for reasons best known to himself.

I also happen to be a reasonably experience programmer, and AFAIK I have a better understanding of the internals of the Warcraft II program than anyone else still playing.

This thread is about a genuine offer to stop the hacking, which I am pretty confident I can do. The point of it is not about accusing and/or insulting anyone (that's just a bonus ). It's about the very genuine question of whether the majority of players would like the hacking to stop.

Sadly I think the answer is no

You mentioned starcraft which is an excellent example. SC1 got TOTALLY hacked (mostly by the Koreans), in the end there were starcraft bot leagues which were 100% AI vs AI - that in itself sounds like awesome fun, but unfortunately it totally destroyed the game for any genuine human players because it became impossible to get a fair game.

[I hate naggers]

I'm a regular player

who happens to help himself in boring repetetive actions like lusting with his macrohax framework! NOT NICE!

[Szwagier]

So i want your pov where u can Lust and u are giving me Chop mad, lol, record on go where u are lusting ogres

[I hate naggers]

it really goes to show how confused lambchops is and how right eleison was about projection - if youre the hacker, youre WAY more likely to think/accuse others of doing the same

[~ToRa~]

Been following this thread for a bit.
Looks like this started a couple days ago when Lambchops and u8 were in a 3v3 gow game I was hosting. Lamb was at 5 and u8 was at 11. u8 went to attack Lamb at 5 and saw him Lust with the double click macro and called him out on it. u8 also made a thread here,

http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,3765.0.html

This whole issue with double click macro was addressed months ago in this thread

http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2154.msg37404.html#msg37404

Double click macro was readily available in the download section of the server. After some deliberation it was decided to be cheating and was then removed.
Using a double click macro is considering cheating but it's not an offence that warrants a ban.
There is currently no way to prove someone is programming a key to create macros.

Lamb is saying this-

I'm saying this game is full of people hacking. Many of them are people I like. Can't really blame people for wanting to stay competetive. I can provide a full analysis of what everyone is doing - but I dont want to spoil the game. If more people are happy to keep hacking then whatever, I think it's a mistake but  hf.

I disagree with the assessment that "most players" on the server are hacking however I accept that our AH isn't that great and can be bypassed.

The current anti-hack does not even disable the warcrap map hack

That is incorrect I believe. The current AH does detect all the hacks from warcrap provided someone isn't using the old
 war2 CD rom.

TBH one of the main factors in I stopped developing the anti-hack was that as far as I could tell, nobody just wanted to stop the hacking, they wanted to let people hack but have proof. Four years later when the the anti-hack project was finally completed and it doesn't seem to do anything much. Can anyone explain to me why the EF_GAMEBOT makes games all day with a nice green [AH] next to it's name?

Lance was the one that created the EF_GAMEBOT it is meant to host games for players who are brand new to the server and don't know how to host games. At one point anyone could whisper the bot and request a game to be made.(idk if this is still possible.)


The current AH does do something. Are there ways around it sure. IL is fairly busy however he has indicated he is willing to accept help from outside sources to speed things along.
If you are able to make a better AH I invite you to do just that. Idk what happened 4 years ago but I will tell you if you are able to make a better AH the community would love to see it.

Finally I will say there is no actual proof u8 hacks.
Players are allowed to voice suspicions of top players however without actual evidence it doesn't make sense to continually voice their suspicions. 

[Lambchops]

it really goes to show how confused lambchops is and how right eleison was about projection - if youre the hacker, youre WAY more likely to think/accuse others of doing the same

LOL Why are you here?

Why as soon as the subject of hacking comes up are you always here?

The most infamous hacker in the history of the game, and you're always defending anyone who buys your bullshit.

Everybody knows. I'm offering to stop you. It's up to the community to decide if they want that or not.

dont believe in your theory that "script for chop mad is godlike, therefore everyone beating it is just using better hax". chop mad is a relatively easy map, yet only one guy really reached my level there, and i could still beat him by using my supreme unit control. oh, and i was legit

So you are the best MAD player ever. I have just provided an example of what it takes to be competetive with pros. But you are better, and it's all legit?  Nobody believes that.

If you are producing hacks you are far more likely to defend the hackers.

[shesycompany]

EF_GAMEBOT yeah u can whisper it to start...read the commands somewhere in this forum.

hats off to lance for making that!

lamb and swaz like dam dudes this is to much energy save it for someone like dellam.

wish i could play but i cant..mommy said it was the devil 

[~ToRa~]

I can totally dissect every single stat of every building from the moment it's placed, and every unit from the moment it is created. I can watch the internal state of every peon as it leaves a mine, returns to a hall, transitions to inside the hall and drops its gold then leaves the hall and heads back to the mine. I can watch the targets of every grunt change from one unit to the next. I can see the planned pathing of every unit 20 steps ahead of where It decides what to do (yes it is 20 steps). I can track the training progress of every unit in real time as it is being trained ...... and I can dump all of this to a file 10 times a second .... IDK probably 50 times a second, but what's the point?

You would be surprised how many top players have actually done just this. I remember Shotgun once quizzing me asking "how many bags of gold are in 12.""How long does it take for 2 to run out." Players do actually fight down to the steps of peons.

 

There was a new player playing gow. Not a total noob, he understood the game. I think he was an old player who had come back to check out the server. He starts complaining that the guy rushing him is hacking. I tell him to STFU because he's just a noob and doesn't understand how good players build... the usual.... but his reply surprised me. It wasn't just crying he simply said that it was impossible to have that many grunts (think it was 8?) that early in the game. I still told him to shut up... but actually I noticed it did seem strange, so I checked it out and sure enough, his opponent was just flooding him with impossible grunts. Why? Because the guy was a nobody so his opponent thought it was ok to not "click twice like a gentleman".

Well that's unfortunate always sucks to see a new players come and leave shortly after. 

[Lambchops]

The current AH does do something. Are there ways around it sure. IL is fairly busy however he has indicated he is willing to accept help from outside sources to speed things along.
If you are able to make a better AH I invite you to do just that. Idk what happened 4 years ago but I will tell you if you are able to make a better AH the community would love to see it.

Finally I will say there is no actual proof u8 hacks.
Players are allowed to voice suspicions of top players however without actual evidence it doesn't make sense to continually voice their suspicions. 

For an AH to have any real effect, it has to be mandatory. The server must refuse to let other clients connect.

I don't want to spoil everyone's fun. If more people want to hack, then so be it - HF. I also don't want to waste my time if the server is going to selectively whitelist players. If anyone has concerns about my playing they can always contact me, I'm quite approachable.

Of course I know what the gamebot does. It's a nice idea although it rarely, if ever, gets used. My (rhetorical) question was why, when it is clearly a bot being controlled by a script does it get cleared by the AH?

I don't continually accuse people. In fact I pretty much NEVER accuse people. There was one guy a while ago who was mapping and being an ass about it, but as I said at the time it was more because he was being an ass about it then because he was a nooby map hacker. This thread was prompted by Grand Master Heinrich Haxzalot accusing me.

Its only been a few days, and some people may be away for the silly season so once everyone has a chance to decide what they want this thread can be deleted (or not, idc) and I will go back to shutting the hell up about it and either work on fixing the AH or not.

TBH I'm kind of hoping I don't have to do it because it's a lot of work and I have pleanty of other things I'd rather be doing, but if it comes down to it I will. So really Mr. Claw, it's in your best interests to just stfu and hope this goes away eh?

[Player]

The decision has been made, fix the AH!

[Lambchops]

You would be surprised how many top players have actually done just this. I remember Shotgun once quizzing me asking "how many bags of gold are in 12.""How long does it take for 2 to run out." Players do actually fight down to the steps of peons.

Really? Well like I say, I don't want to spoil anyone's fun I'm surprised because every time I chat to a wannabe hacker the first thing they want to know is how to find out where all the units are... and no I don't tell them. I also don't talk about anything people share with me in confidence, if I did this would have been a much shorter conversation. If people know how to access all the info why would anyone be relying on gold counting to get info on other players' troop production? I'm happy to play the game, provided we all agree on what the game is.

I'd have to think that surely there's 600 bags of gold in 12. Each bag removes 100 gold regardless of the amount of tech bonus recieved when you drop them off. Of course this assumes that you only remove each bag from the mine once. A better question might be how much gold can you get out of 12? This depends on when you upgrade, what the tech bonuses are and how many times you drop each bag of gold off at your hall.

Actually I saw a classic micro fail the other day, made me LMAO. Early in a gow game. 12 had rushed grunts into 2's gold line. The guy defending 2 got a grunt and was trying to kill off the couple of attackers that were left. He was doing ok until he accidentally killed one of his own peons that was walking past with a bag of gold. Honestly I nearly fell out of my seat laughing.

wish i could play but i cant..mommy said it was the devil 

Awww....  your mommy's mean

[Lambchops]

Ok well at this point I'll sign off from this discussion.

Admins feel free to delete this thread, when and if you feel that is appropriate. I think it's probably for the best.

You know how to get in touch with me if you want to proceed. You can message me through the forum or via my personal email. TBH I probably check the forum more often so you can PM me here and tell me to check my email if you want.

 

[Szwagier]

We were in same team and i was watching him how he is lusting, almost like pc

[I hate naggers]

So you are the best MAD player ever. I have just provided an example of what it takes to be competetive with pros. But you are better, and it's all legit?  Nobody believes that.

yes, we know. hence the ostrich and airplane analogy, which you failed to grasp (and thought its some sort of hax comparison)

[I hate naggers]

been inactive for like 1-2 years and people had already forgotten i was an absolute chopchop monster, disgraceful ostrich.