Testimonies from Ex-Muslims

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

"Hoarding wealth may be encouraged by Capital-ISTS but it is not a part of Capital-ISM. "

lol idiot

 "even in the prison system where items such as new clothing, cigarettes and other items act as money is a perfect example of primal forms of commerce. Not so much in the items but in the fact that there is demand and value for these items, which is capitalist by nature."

incorrect dummy, basic commodity exchange hasn't anything to do with capitalism.

"No one is equal and class hierarchy exists on all levels. "

hierarchy is only useful when it's not arbitrary, i.e., student and teacher. not useless ceo who got his job from daddy and hard working construction worker.

" a poor-man is not equal to a rich man with regards to their wealth, an ignoramus is not equal to an intellectual, and disbeliever is not equal to a believer etc"

very interesting how capitalist-apologists use fascist narratives

[3bdushakur]

"Hoarding wealth may be encouraged by Capital-ISTS but it is not a part of Capital-ISM. "

lol idiot

Ironically you call me an idiot with that refutation.

 "even in the prison system where items such as new clothing, cigarettes and other items act as money is a perfect example of primal forms of commerce. Not so much in the items but in the fact that there is demand and value for these items, which is capitalist by nature."

incorrect dummy, basic commodity exchange hasn't anything to do with capitalism.

I think you missed the part where I explicitly mention act as money, which they do. In prison, it isn't mere commodity exchange or bartering. It's buying and selling replacing paper notes with commodity items.

Before you go around calling people 'idiots' and 'dummies', consider that you do not know anything about me. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it seems that I'll have to speak to you on a lower level if you want to continue using these ad hominem responses that fail to address the issue and attempt to somehow belittle my character.

I hope you are smart enough to maintain a discussion without regressing into a retarded state of mind.

"No one is equal and class hierarchy exists on all levels. "

hierarchy is only useful when it's not arbitrary, i.e., student and teacher. not useless ceo who got his job from daddy and hard working construction worker.

It doesn't matter how a person got their position in life, some people are more fortunate than others, that's life. You either embrace your condition and try to better it and die trying or, you sit there, bitter and angry, trying to bring everyone else down to your misery because you got a rough deal. That is called pre-decree.

" a poor-man is not equal to a rich man with regards to their wealth, an ignoramus is not equal to an intellectual, and disbeliever is not equal to a believer etc"

very interesting how capitalist-apologists use fascist narratives

"Capitalist-apologists" Hahaha, Communist jargon. Fascist Narratives? It's only fascist to the one on the losing end of those equations. That sort of emotional reaction is expected, thankfully, most people recognize the reality of life. The fact that "equality" is a fantasy does not make it fascist as you are trying to insinuate. Also, I never claimed to be pro-Capitalist or Communist, these isms, for me are part of Western Ideological constructs that rest on the rotting foundation of philosophy. I am an orthodox Muslim, and for the most part Capitalism and in total, Communism are in opposition to Islamic legislation.

I am merely pointing out that your attribution of anti-Capitalist and pro-Communist sentiments are incompatible with religion. I really don't care about your politics, they are irrelevant in Islamic life and have nothing to offer the Muslim because the Communists goals are finite and destined to ruin.

I'm curious how criminals are dealt with in a Communist society.

@marx was right

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

I think you missed the part where I explicitly mention act as money, which they do. In prison, it isn't mere commodity exchange or bartering. It's buying and selling replacing paper notes with commodity items.

i know what you're saying and it has nothing to do with capitalism.

 the problem is you don't know what capitalism is, you have your own libertarian definition that's completely wrong, so on that basis this is a worthless argument.


"It doesn't matter how a person got their position in life, some people are more fortunate than others, that's life."
 

 of course it matters. it's a great injustice when wealthy scum (born into wealth) exploit the poor working class (and keep them in their drudgery). what's wrong with you?
 
"Fascist Narratives? It's only fascist to the one on the losing end of those equations. That sort of emotional reaction is expected, thankfully, most people recognize the reality of life. The fact that "equality" is a fantasy does not make it fascist as you are trying to insinuate."

the "reality" that non-believers are subhuman and believers are superior? lol. you're just a lunatic fascist.

[3bdushakur]

 the problem is you don't know what capitalism is, you have your own libertarian definition that's completely wrong, so on that basis this is a worthless argument

Libertarian? Where did you pull that out from?

 of course it matters. it's a great injustice when wealthy scum (born into wealth) exploit the poor working class (and keep them in their drudgery). what's wrong with you?

You should stop cherry picking and stick to the actual discussion instead of arguing with some imaginary Libertarian fascist.

the "reality" that non-believers are subhuman and believers are superior? lol. you're just a lunatic fascist.

None of that has anything to do with lunacy or fascism.

It's clear you don't know what you are talking about, so, until you can collect yourself and think coherently, we are done. When you get yourself together, I should be here to respond.

@marx was right
(And, Marx failed)

[3bdushakur]

@marx was right

You should also learn how to properly communicate with people, be it online or in real life (if and when that opportunity arises, like a working class movement)

[~ToRa~]

jesus was a communist.

Lmfao.

Homeboy said Jesus was a communist.

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

jesus was a communist.

Lmfao.

Homeboy said Jesus was a communist.

that's common knowledge

[3bdushakur]

jesus was a communist.

Lmfao.

Homeboy said Jesus was a communist.

that's common knowledge

Common knowledge among who? Come on guy, like I said, Reagan Youth is not a credible source of information.

Jesus was a Muslim.

[LiveFreeorDie]

Jesus is not a Muslim, not was He ever a Muslim. Muslim is defined as one who follows the teachings of Muhammad. Muhammad was born about 570 AD, hundreds of years AFTER Christ, and Muhammad died and still lies in his grave.

Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, who came here to save us all from our sins.

The tomb of Jesus is EMPTY. He is risen from the dead and lives and reigns forevermore with the Father.

The dead Muhammad can offer no hope or help to the human race, which is mired in sin and evil. Muhammad is still in his grave.

Jesus died for all people, including those who follow and worship Muhammad and Muhammad's invented god.

All who trust in Jesus Christ to save them will be saved and have eternal life with God in heaven. All who reject Christ will be condemned to eternal torment because there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we may be saved.

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

i agree jesus was a communist muslim

[woot.]

"Capitalist-apologists"  whoa gonna add that to my political vocab, will come handy one day when i run for president.

[3bdushakur]

Muslim is defined as one who follows the teachings of Muhammad.

Actually the word MUSLIM (a transliteration from Arabic) is an Arabic compound word. Mu-Slim. The "Mu" is for a person or is used when describing a tool. "Slim" comes from the trilateral root "seen"+"laam"+"meem" which means both Submission and Peace. From the Islamic perspective, the word Mu-Slim means "a person who is submitted to Allah (God)"

The word Islam (another compound word) is a state of existence which translates as "submission to Allah (God)".

By definition, Jesus was one who was submitted to Allah (God).

And Allah does NOT translate into "The God". Allah is a proper noun, i.e. God's Name. Al-Elah translates as "The God".

All Christian Arabs know this. They call God Allah and Jesus Ibnullah (Son of Allah).

You should learn Arabic, it will expand your mind and intellect.

Muhammad was born about 570 AD, hundreds of years AFTER Christ, and Muhammad died and still lies in his grave.

Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, who came here to save us all from our sins.

The tomb of Jesus is EMPTY. He is risen from the dead and lives and reigns forevermore with the Father.

The dead Muhammad can offer no hope or help to the human race, which is mired in sin and evil. Muhammad is still in his grave.

Jesus died for all people, including those who follow and worship Muhammad and Muhammad's invented god.

All who trust in Jesus Christ to save them will be saved and have eternal life with God in heaven. All who reject Christ will be condemned to eternal torment because there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we may be saved.

No Muslim worships Muhammad (well, I'm sure some Sufi's do, and the Shi'ites worship Ali and their Ayatollahs) since that would invalidate the core principle teaching of Islam being TAWHEED (Pure Monotheism). The Christians worship a man, who they consider the "Son of God", Jesus, son of Mary (May Allah's blessings be upon them).

A Muslim who worships Mohammad would be known as a Mu-shrik (A person that associates partners with Allah). Christians are technically Mushrikeen (people who associate partners with Allah/ the "een" at the end of the word is a plural of 3 or more people). Shirk (polytheism) is the root word in this case.

Jesus (Peace be upon him), in Matthew 5:17, says:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Law in this case is the Law of Moses [Exodus 20:1-8], and the first Law of the Commandments given to Moses (Peace be upon him) was Tawheed:

And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Jesus said in Matthew 22:37/38:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

As we can see, that Jesus was sent to call the people back to this original Law/Commandment as his primary objective.

Returning to what Jesus is attributed as saying, in Matthew 5:17/18/19 (and in context):

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Allah, The Most High, says in the Qur'aan, Suraat Adh Dhaariyyaat (The Winnowing Winds; Chapter 51), verse 56:

وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ
And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).

And, in [Q. 4:159]:

وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ ۖ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا
And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his ['Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew's or a Christian's] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he ['Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.

in [Q. 5:78]:

لُعِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَلَىٰ لِسَانِ دَاوُودَ وَعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِمَا عَصَوا وَّكَانُوا يَعْتَدُونَ
Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of Dawud (David) and 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). That was because they disobeyed (Allah and the Messengers) and were ever transgressing beyond bounds.

in [Q. 5:11]:

وَإِذْ أَوْحَيْتُ إِلَى الْحَوَارِيِّينَ أَنْ آمِنُوا بِي وَبِرَسُولِي قَالُوا آمَنَّا وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّنَا مُسْلِمُونَ
And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of Al-Hawarieen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims."

And, in [Q. 19:36]:

وَإِنَّ اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُوهُ ۚ هَٰذَا صِرَاطٌ مُّسْتَقِيمٌ
['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allah's Religion of Islamic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)."

As for the claim that we worship Muhammad, then this is negated by the Hadeeth found in Saheeh al-Bukhaaree (3445):

حَدَّثَنَا الْحُمَيْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ الزُّهْرِيَّ، يَقُولُ أَخْبَرَنِي عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، سَمِعَ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ يَقُولُ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ لاَ تُطْرُونِي كَمَا أَطْرَتِ النَّصَارَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ، فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا عَبْدُهُ، فَقُولُوا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولُهُ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated `Umar: I heard the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasalam) saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

Anyway, personal opinions about Scripture won't save you. The only One who can save mankind is Allah as He is the Lord of All that exists in the heavens and the earth, this includes Jesus, son of Mary. We are all waiting for the End, and then we will all come to know the truth of the matter.

@BabyShark

[3bdushakur]

i agree jesus was a communist muslim

Lol, a communist Muslim? No, guy.

[woot.]

Warning - while you were reading 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. <---- whats up with the warning in red 

anyways cool thread keep it going! 

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

i agree jesus was a communist muslim

Lol, a communist Muslim? No, guy.

u can't handle facts? i studied Jesus and he was a communist. He told workers to rise against roman oppression, yes. early humanity was primitive communism.