vote to follow blizzard balance by default

[RagneR]

DEFAULT?!?!?!?! NO WAY
I will explain adequate reasons why you should not do this.
The only regular players who play on this server every day are the players on this server. They are the ones who give life to Warcraft all the time, since it lost its popularity. They played here by the rules that the game provides from the very beginning, and those bugs and errors in the game that we see to this day, this is the thing that gives variety better than in other others. If you make this by default, I will not play fucking Warcraft anymore.

[RagneR]

If you compare it with StarCraft or StarCraft 2, it's the same RTS game, only more advanced. Yes, there are more strategies than as some players say "Only Bloodlust". But you will understand how many subtleties there are in the game if you understand it. StarCraft 2 has more units, but it is absolutely the same in complexity as Warcraft 2. But I don't like StarCraft 2. Now this is a definition, as a fact, I can justify it as much as possible. If you make changes to the game, new strategies will appear, in which you will lose players of the pro level, master level, grand master level, legendary level, old players. These are all those who play at night in my time, during the day, Equinox, and the rest of the daytime players. They are used to playing by the rules that they play. Now imagine that you break their game, and they will no longer come here, because the game is shit. What Blizzard did is good, but not for us yet. Let them at least bring their game to our level, and then we will try to follow their example. You can't delete online on the only living platform in the world. Those players who come to play on Blizzard, they do it 3 times a week. And they can't even normally communicate with each other, because there are problems with communication. We have a top-level server and there is no need to adapt to the "meta" of the "original" developers, because the real legends who really made this game have not worked at BLIZARD for a long time.

[RagneR]

I wouldn't even put it as an option so that people know what Warcraft really is

[Oragorn]

Whoever voted yes should be banned from forum and server.

And also shoot and throw the body into the lava.

[RagneR]

I forgot to mention the USA server, they, like us, played almost every day. At least more often than the players on Blizzard do.

[Oragorn]

Personally, I don't see this as a replacement of a specific balance in the game with another balance. I see it as an opportunity, the so-called "open door of opportunity". What was missed for years, ignored by the Warcraft II community (due to habit, laziness, it doesn't matter) is the lack of balance between the races. Everyone knows this.

Many referred to the "canon" from the creators, arguing why there is no need to change the balance, and if they do change it, then they must agree with Blizzard and ask people's opinions. Well, Blizzard has already changed the balance themselves (without even asking people, but it's not that important to us, right?). And some people did not just accept these changes, but agreed that changes to the game balance are NECESSARY. This is really a problem. When some spells = garbage, when some units = garbage, when some upgrades = garbage with an inadequately high price.

That is why, personally, I will support the changes. Because this is a new step in the development of Warcraft 2. Turn off your emotions, and take a sober look: Blizzard can do whatever they want in their remaster. But their step allows us here on war2online to create our own NORMAL balance of the game. WITHOUT destroying the usual image of the game (for example, for the same orcs).

That is why, the balancing of the game must be approached with all possible caution. To begin with, as it was done in war2rebalance, I would suggest NOT CHANGING the orc race AT ALL. That is, not subjecting them to any changes at all. Because really now by 2k24 everyone has long been accustomed to playing for them in a very specific style.

I would suggest revising some points in the balancing of the human race.
___
And then, with slow steps, sooner or later we will come to an almost ideal balance.
______
As for this pack from Blizzard specifically... Personally, I was pleased with the reduction in the cost of upgrading archers. Because, I think everyone will agree, these upgrades are not worth the effort spent on them.
I liked the slightly stronger archers.

As for the rest, regarding bloodlust, mage casts - this is basically garbage. Understating the cost of birds is also bad. Etc.
___________
What do I want to say? I would suggest convening an international council of active developers, admins and players in Warcraft 2 to discuss a variety of issues in the life of our game community. Over the past few years, and especially this month, fate has prepared many trials and events for us. It would be good to discuss them all and come to some kind of decision together. Thank you.

[RagneR]

Perhaps you have more ideas in your head than I do, Oragorn, and I would rather agree with your ideas than with chaos

It is possible to add it as an option, but to state it so sharply as a fact, based only on a vote, where not real players participate, but forum participants. Where almost all those who play in the evenings do not go, would be a bad idea, to put it mildly.

[RagneR]

There is definitely no need to set it as default.

[Nox]

, Equinox, and the rest of the daytime players. They are used to playing by the rules that they play. Now imagine that you break their game, and they will no longer come here, because the game is shit.

Well we must be carefull here, i dont say we cant have evolution in the game, actually im clearly for it. But it must be done right, what blizzard did is good and bad at the same time, im okay to add the good part of it, but im not with adding the bad. What we want is making the game better, if we add everything they do at every patch we will accumulate the bad things.

Clearly, i think blizzard are just making warcraft II for casual players, i think they know what they do, but i also think they do it for the casual, so when new player who have play the games 30 years ago and say human are bad because bloodlust is too op, its because they dont know the game at all.

Human are not bad, true blood lust is powerfull compare to knights.

But they are 2 different race, Human are stronger in early game, orc are stronger in late game, and they basicly equal in mid game.

Now, they nerf blood lust to please the casual, but they also buff the knights, wich bring us to a new probleme, human will just be the new orc, clearly human will roll on orc the same way orc as roll on human the last 30 years, the only probleme, is, its gonna be even worst.

Because now, human will lead early, mid and late game.

I think they had to nerf blood lust or buff the knights, but clearly not both at same time.

Anyway, i have no probleme at all with all the change they made, because actually, i think each season should be different, this is how we bring the game more interessting, my only probleme is the fact that if we copy what blizzard do, im just gonna go play on blizzard.

The purpose of this server is to make the game as the best we can, we dont make the game better than blizzard if we copy exactly what they do.

Amins of this server release the re-balance mode 5 years ago, since then, nothing did happen with it, nothing as change, no update at all, and now in 24 hours we have create a new mode just like that...

Where was the update for the last 5 years before blizzard release a patch? We could have made alot of change into this game to make it better, but no one in the admins have take cares of it, instead we have made campaings that no one really cares, and now sudenly everyone wake up?? I feel like we have been trolls for years. And now because administration lack of confidence they wanna show us how good they are at making what blizzard did in only one night.. But this server will not get better by doing the same things as blizzard, it will get better at making smart decisions and truly make the game better.

Im not against blizzard mode, i actually think its a good idea, but im clearly against copying that mode as default in the server, i think if peoples were a bit smarter, they will realize the strenght of this server is actually to have different mode.

Classic mode, re-balance mode, trigger mode, blizzard mode.

You can play whatever you want, but now your telling me we will put blizzard mode as default?? No way... its the worst thing to do..

When they have release the remasterd i was happy, but i came back here the first day because there was bad thing in the remastered, if you want to give me remaster here, then i just go back to blizzard... If i need to play the blizzard version, then im just gonna play it on blizzard period.

Im not against adding thing in the default version of the server, but i think we should add things in the rebalance mode first, then testing these new things in the re-balance mode, just like a ptr, and if we love something as a community, then after we can add these things in the official default classic game.

So we can play these things as the ladder version.

But adding things that blizzard change every patch, or even adding things that we change ourself without testing it in the rebalance mode first, should not even take seriously in consideration.

Classic should be sett as the official mode for ladder and tournament.
Blizzard should be set as an alternative mode for player who want it.
Re-Balance should be sett as a PTR mode where we test what US as a community want to change, or if we like something from blizzard mode, we also can include it to the re-balance mode..

If we like something in the re-balance mode as a community, then we can add it to the classic default version for ladder tournament etc.

OR! We could just create a PTR mode Period, replacing it for the re-balance mode, than letting the classic original as the original game, and using the re-balance mode as defaut.

So we would have Classic mode as alternative, Blizzard mode as alternative, PTR mode where we test everything, RE-Balance mode sett as default for ladder, and trigger mode.

We could just start by copying the classic game mode into the re-balance mode from stratch, we change nothing, and we test everything in the ptr, and if someone really like a new change, we add it into the re-balance mode sett as default.

Anyway no matter what happen, im telling you, im gonna play where its the better, but if you giving me what blizzard does as default, im just gonna go play on blizzard, if you want me to play here, it will have to be better than blizzard, not worst or equal. And im pretty sure everyone thinks the same, they will just not tell it.

[Oragorn]

Amins of this server release the re-balance mode 5 years ago, since then, nothing did happen with it, nothing as change, no update at all, and now in 24 hours we have create a new mode just like that...

Where was the update for the last 5 years before blizzard release a patch? We could have made alot of change into this game to make it better, but no one in the admins have take cares of it, instead we have made campaings that no one really cares, and now sudenly everyone wake up?? I feel like we have been trolls for years. And now because administration lack of confidence they wanna show us how good they are at making what blizzard did in only one night.. But this server will not get better by doing the same things as blizzard, it will get better at making smart decisions and truly make the game better.

Because the community was extremely negative about all the changes we made. We were ready to compromise, to negotiate - but the community, and you in particular, were extremely opposed to it.
That is why there were no more updates in those modes.
We took a different path: we started making campaigns to show what functionality could be in the game, so that maybe people would be less negative about the rebalancing.

[Nox]

Amins of this server release the re-balance mode 5 years ago, since then, nothing did happen with it, nothing as change, no update at all, and now in 24 hours we have create a new mode just like that...

Where was the update for the last 5 years before blizzard release a patch? We could have made alot of change into this game to make it better, but no one in the admins have take cares of it, instead we have made campaings that no one really cares, and now sudenly everyone wake up?? I feel like we have been trolls for years. And now because administration lack of confidence they wanna show us how good they are at making what blizzard did in only one night.. But this server will not get better by doing the same things as blizzard, it will get better at making smart decisions and truly make the game better.

Because the community was extremely negative about all the changes we made. We were ready to compromise, to negotiate - but the community, and you in particular, were extremely opposed to it.
That is why there were no more updates in those modes.
We took a different path: we started making campaigns to show what functionality could be in the game, so that maybe people would be less negative about the rebalancing.

This is clearly not true, everyone know have always advocate for evolution of the game, when lambchop bring the chop bar i was ALL FOR it, when we bring the APM and the timer i was all for it, when we bring hotkeys i was all for it, when we bring hd i was all for it, when we bring re-balance i was all for it.. I Have always been for evolution. What im against, is peoples like u8 who edit their mpq to have their personal priviledge, because we talk of hacking.. Peoples should not have acces to these change without the release of an official admins. PERIOD.

You have support this kind of behavior for ever, when i was telling you, peoples should not do that, you guys was telling me, your just too stupid to do it yourself... This is not how it should work.. Admins should be the only one who officially release things in the server, if its not officially release by an admins, then you must call it HACKING! thats all. But you dint... And always have blame me and call me crazy.

ive never been against anything dude, its the entire opposite, ive always be happy with every good we can bring to this game, but it must be good too, we dont change something because u8 think its good, we change things because the community agree on it... Its totally different.

Re-balance mode has nothing to do with the server, when you say peoples was mad its not true, because peoples play what they want, if they dont play rebalance right now its because they think its bad, so obviously you guys fail and throw the blame on the community, when re-balance will be good, i garantee you everyone will play re-balance over classic.

But since you fail and dont want to admit it, you just has throw the blame on us and stop working on it...

Thats your fault, no one is force to play re-balance, you cant say peoples is mad, you just can say you guys decide to stop working on it because you give up.

[Oragorn]

What im against, is peoples like u8 who edit their mpq to have their personal priviledge, because we talk of hacking.. Peoples should not have acces to these change without the release of an official admins. PERIOD.

It is after such words that you are usually considered crazy.
It has been said many times, but I will say it for the last time: changes in the MPQ files do not bring any in-game advantages. If you have not been able to understand this simple truth in five years... then this is very sad and there is nothing more to talk about with you.

We agree, war2rebalance had its shortcomings, as did our work with the community. Perhaps we will be able to fix this.

[Nox]

What im against, is peoples like u8 who edit their mpq to have their personal priviledge, because we talk of hacking.. Peoples should not have acces to these change without the release of an official admins. PERIOD.

It is after such words that you are usually considered crazy.
It has been said many times, but I will say it for the last time: changes in the MPQ files do not bring any in-game advantages. If you have not been able to understand this simple truth in five years... then this is very sad and there is nothing more to talk about with you.

We agree, war2rebalance had its shortcomings, as did our work with the community. Perhaps we will be able to fix this.

Ok... So then, explain me what he edit in the mpq? What the purpose of editing the mpq if it dont bring any change??

You can say whatever you want dude, but u8 was using color change on his units 10 years ago while it was not release yet on the server, u8 was using custom hotkeys 10 years ago before it was officially release by the admins, u8 was using twitch viewers name on his units way before everyone know what it was...  And this is the things that we know, what else we dont know??! He also have been caught with the anti hack using unknow source code, stop lying and telling me it mean nothing, we both know it mean something. ANTI-hack was build on source code, he was analyzing souce code of the game and was telling us what source code we were using, if the anti hack was saying ANTI HACK on, it was meaning the player was using the right source code of the official server, if the anti hack was saying, none, it was meaning he was using an old version client from blizzard, if the anti hack was saying HACK, it was meaning someone was using a source code that we already know as hacking, and if the anti hack was saying unknow, it was meaning the anti hack had no idea at all what source code it was, it mean, it was not souce code of the server, it was not an old blizzard client, it was not a hack that we already know, it was just a source code that we dont know at all in the registery... So obviously what was that source code?? It was a personal source code that he made himself or someone give him, Period! And after i release that screen shot, you guys just remove the anti hack from the server... Why that?? Because you guys dint want it to happen again, just be HONNESt and stop calling me crazy!

For 10 years or more he did use priviledge sowftware or editation, call it whatever that please you. Im not crazy we both know its true, you just dont want to admit it, and because of that, you bring immorality to this server, you let know everyone that this kind of behavior is okay while in fact its totally not.

Not only you guys have let this happen for years, but you also insult me and try to put me down for years by calling me crazy and shit like that.

I know u8 is your king, but hes not mine, he will never be, and im always gonna cheer for the community over your king!

[Oragorn]

Ok... So then, explain me what he edit in the mpq? What the purpose of editing the mpq if it dont bring any change??

Colors, names of units and buildings, tilesets, icons, sprites, menu pictures and splash pictures, credits, picture for credits, briefings, voice acting of units/briefings, etc.
that is, things that do not affect the game in any way. He can, if he wants, turn all the units into characters from My Little Pony. This is PURELY a matter of taste. It does not affect the game in any way.

Yes, in the MPQ files you will not be able to change the combat values ​​for yourself, because otherwise the game will crash.
Real cheaters, which u8 does not belong to, do not use or change MPQ files. Because it is simply stupid.

[Nox]

Ok... So then, explain me what he edit in the mpq? What the purpose of editing the mpq if it dont bring any change??

Colors, names of units and buildings, tilesets, icons, sprites, menu pictures and splash pictures, credits, picture for credits, briefings, voice acting of units/briefings, etc.
that is, things that do not affect the game in any way. He can, if he wants, turn all the units into characters from My Little Pony. This is PURELY a matter of taste. It does not affect the game in any way.

Yes, in the MPQ files you will not be able to change the combat values ​​for yourself, because otherwise the game will crash.
Real cheaters, which u8 does not belong to, do not use or change MPQ files. Because it is simply stupid.

Changing the color of your units because you wanna see better than your opponnent is clearly affecting the game, putting name on your units and being able to remember wich units has getting damage because of those names is clearly affecting the game.. If i use custom hotkeys while 99% of the server cant, it clearly affect the game. If i made an hack where i give +2 damage to my units, i must acces pictures of the game to make sure that +2 dont appear in the picture itself when i click on my unit... Just like these hacks 30 years ago where peoples had paladin level 25 and we were able to see it... Who know if u8 dont use footman level 6 and he dint acces mpq picture to still make it appear level 5 on his game, or even ballista level3, or maybe a canon tower with 800 defense that never broke and stay at 1 HP even after a blizzard who know??!...It dont matter what he can or cant do, we dont know, and we should not have to ask ourself the question. No matter what he does with the MPQ, it should not be allow, period.. MPQ should not be editing at all if its not an admin for future updates and for the entire community... The MPQ is an oppening door for other hacks, because its the core of the games, and no one should have acces to it other than peoples who work for the server. for the entire community No matter if you think he can hack or not, it should not be allow period.. And if your about to tell me that you cant do shit about it because everyone can acces mpq even if you want to stop them, then you should at least say to peoples not doing it because its illegal, but you dont and you guys keep arguing the fact that there no probleme, it a probleme, it always have been and it always will be, make the things right, give decensy to that server and make sure to show exemple.