Rebalancing warcraft 2: human edition

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Also the beyond ze dark portal orc campaign is lacking in terms of heroes in missions I don't think anybody will say no to having grom hellscream in a couple more missions aside from gorefiend the orc heroes only show up in 1 or 2 missions , kargath could appear in the missions against kultiras  , dentarg in the alterac mage mission , and gorefiend for the blackrock spire rescuing dragons mission

Also orc heroes suffer from lack of healing so having all heroes orc and human alike get regeneration is good idea , age of empires 2 had a similar issue with heroes until the expansion pack came around (the conquerors) giving  heroes health regen made it much better experience allowing you to use heroes more freely without fear of losing them

Grom and kargath are the same so how about granting kargath some +10 health and 1 more attack while grom gets +2 attack  , human heroes are very different from each other and their appearance again and again throughout the campaign made it a much better campaign than the orc one in my opinion the assault on shadowmoon fortress lacked heroes but its mentioned that khadgar and tyrlaoyon (I messed his name up I know) have searched the ruins of the fort so having both replacing a knight and the starting mage will suffice  a lot of little changes could be made or additions to the campaigns that would make them a bit more interesting.

ALSO some more color variety would be cool playing as the warsong or shattered hand or even the bleeding hollow , and the bleeding hollow could get a bit harder they are supposed to be this legendary orcs in game they don't upgrade much I would say they gotta be on the same par as the warsong in terms of unit quality (the warsong gets lvl 4 units most of the time) however their attacks would rely more on grunts/trolls while the warsong would be more  ogre/catapult oriented.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Been thinking about holy vision compared to eye of kilrog it doesn't do that good its not because cost or area it reveals its cuz it just reveals the map for 3 seconds now on lower speeds its fine but on higher speeds yeah no lol I played on you can say faster speed not the fastest but the 2nd fastest if that makes sense it simply proven to be too short of a time to even glimpse at the enemy forces I believe 6 seconds or 9 seconds instead of 3 would make it a lot better just making sense out of the enemy formations would be enough 6-9 seconds is enough time for recognizing everything on the sceen.



Someone in this vast universe may be thinking exorcism needs a mana cost reduction I would say yeah but think about it if paladins gonna be able to get mana twice the speed of ogre magi they can quickly fill up their mana pools and blast the living horrors with blinding holy light they can do it more reliably too , so I think reducing it to 3 mana per 1 hp combined with the planned buff for the paladin like yeah no too OP I believe

[dannyldd]

(...)but also campaign honestly the  tides of darkness campaigns could use some more fleshing out like make the town of hillsbrad look like an actual town same goes for stromgarde , stratholme , and the capital city
(...)

Some campaign or even custom maps could look like actual towns, such as some missions i remember in warcraft 3, but the problem is that there're not enough sprites for such an environment. You just got lumber mills, farms, townhalls and that's it.

Yet, hopefully i can change this out with several new sprites into one of the next mods I'm making.
I can apply new building sprites now.

[dannyldd]

Also the beyond ze dark portal orc campaign is lacking in terms of heroes in missions I don't think anybody will say no to having grom hellscream in a couple more missions aside from gorefiend the orc heroes only show up in 1 or 2 missions , kargath could appear in the missions against kultiras  , dentarg in the alterac mage mission , and gorefiend for the blackrock spire rescuing dragons mission

Also orc heroes suffer from lack of healing so having all heroes orc and human alike get regeneration is good idea , age of empires 2 had a similar issue with heroes until the expansion pack came around (the conquerors) giving  heroes health regen made it much better experience allowing you to use heroes more freely without fear of losing them

Grom and kargath are the same so how about granting kargath some +10 health and 1 more attack while grom gets +2 attack  , human heroes are very different from each other and their appearance again and again throughout the campaign made it a much better campaign than the orc one in my opinion the assault on shadowmoon fortress lacked heroes but its mentioned that khadgar and tyrlaoyon (I messed his name up I know) have searched the ruins of the fort so having both replacing a knight and the starting mage will suffice  a lot of little changes could be made or additions to the campaigns that would make them a bit more interesting.

ALSO some more color variety would be cool playing as the warsong or shattered hand or even the bleeding hollow , and the bleeding hollow could get a bit harder they are supposed to be this legendary orcs in game they don't upgrade much I would say they gotta be on the same par as the warsong in terms of unit quality (the warsong gets lvl 4 units most of the time) however their attacks would rely more on grunts/trolls while the warsong would be more  ogre/catapult oriented.

So you referred to: "playing as the warsong or shattered hand or even the bleeding hollow ," which would mean to play other orc factions through the campaign... Like Warcraft 3 with the orcs.

I may be able to do something like this in a future mod. And yes, I've it planned to play other orc factions and also Bleeding Hollow Clan. Thanks for mentioning it.

" I would say yeah but think about it if paladins gonna be able to get mana twice the speed of ogre magi they can quickly fill up their mana pools and blast the living horrors with blinding holy light they can do it more reliably too "

Maybe @Mistral knows if paladin healing could be used as Holy light in Warcraft 3, where this spell damages the enemy instead of healing it.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Yeah I simply got tired of playing black colored orcs for 12 missions straight I also  thought about tides of darkness campaigns with other orcs instead of only blackrocks and blacktooth grin , playing as all orc clans and alliance nations is a nice change of color and pace for example you could play as kul tiras in the battle of crestfall or gilneas in the assault on grim batol just a lot of cool possibilities.

Yeah well holy light in wc3 is both healing and exorcism in one spell but in wc2 they are separate while the paladin uses the light for his spells at least thats what I remember from lore (I can barely recite anything from Warcraft lore XD) if healing can damage undead I think that will hurt exorcism cuz if I can do both with a spell costing 1000 gold why would I even bother with exorcism that costs 2000 gold?

Im quite glad you working on more mods so keep up the work man.

[dannyldd]

thank you buddy, i appreciate it.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Another thoughtful post today so I thought about some model editing what if we gonna give each hero a unique model ? Well here is what I came up with why am posting this here you ask? Cuz if it proves possible to edit models I would include that in the upcoming mod I will make inshallah 

So for the orc heroes:
dentarg model would be an ogre with some blue runes across his body to make him resemble more of his portrait

grom hellscream would lack a 2nd shoulder pad to make him look like his up to date appearance now if I remember right he has a shoulder pad on his left shoulder in wc3

Kargath would be hmmm lets see now I have seen edited models but replacing one of this guy hands with his axe? Well that will be interesting to see

Teron gorefiend ...Well if you look closely he is the only hero in the game with unique appearance his hood covering his face looks different to a normal death knight  its slightly smaller

Deathwing for this guy I think the most optimal thing would be just recoloring the whole of the dragon model to black

Human heroes:

Alleria would have a hood and a slightly visible blue rune covering a part of her face

Danath well I think just replacing the footman head with a head that looks like danath would do it may look awkward tho

Tyralyuon or whatever his name is I think there is 2 ways to go with this one either a normal knight with glowing eyes or replace the head with that of a one resembling tyralyuon I can't get his name right and don't even try to correct me on this

Khadgar is simple just slightly grey beard or the entirety of his beard is grey

Kurdian and skyree well the dwarf kurdian would have some blue runes on his cheeks maybe some blue runes across the gryphon skyree too that would do

And as a reminder to whoever is reading this I still haven't thought about a new bonus for the human transport ships.

[Mistral]

you mean edit sprites? yes its very easy you can change GRP files with progs you can find on en.war2.ru/downloads/
and you can use code from my plugins on my github to load files from folder and change them in game on fly

[dannyldd]

Another thoughtful post today so I thought about some model editing what if we gonna give each hero a unique model ? Well here is what I came up with why am posting this here you ask? Cuz if it proves possible to edit models I would include that in the upcoming mod I will make inshallah 

So for the orc heroes:
dentarg model would be an ogre with some blue runes across his body to make him resemble more of his portrait

grom hellscream would lack a 2nd shoulder pad to make him look like his up to date appearance now if I remember right he has a shoulder pad on his left shoulder in wc3

Kargath would be hmmm lets see now I have seen edited models but replacing one of this guy hands with his axe? Well that will be interesting to see

Teron gorefiend ...Well if you look closely he is the only hero in the game with unique appearance his hood covering his face looks different to a normal death knight  its slightly smaller

Deathwing for this guy I think the most optimal thing would be just recoloring the whole of the dragon model to black

Human heroes:

Alleria would have a hood and a slightly visible blue rune covering a part of her face

Danath well I think just replacing the footman head with a head that looks like danath would do it may look awkward tho

Tyralyuon or whatever his name is I think there is 2 ways to go with this one either a normal knight with glowing eyes or replace the head with that of a one resembling tyralyuon I can't get his name right and don't even try to correct me on this

Khadgar is simple just slightly grey beard or the entirety of his beard is grey

Kurdian and skyree well the dwarf kurdian would have some blue runes on his cheeks maybe some blue runes across the gryphon skyree too that would do

And as a reminder to whoever is reading this I still haven't thought about a new bonus for the human transport ships.

Most of these requests or ideas are already covered up within my mods.

You can check out either of the mods:
my Universal patch v11 (multiplayer) https://gamebanana.com/mods/507336 or
Universal patch v12 (single player) https://gamebanana.com/mods/514538

Danath has a unique fan-made sprite where he has uncovered bald head and you can even see his eyes... probably need 640x480 resolution or taking a screenshot to see better his eyes

Alleria has Ranger hood that also Ranger unit has in-game

Turalyon has yellow eyes and light-blue hammer sprite, made by Incos - community member. Same for Uther I think

Lothar has unique fan-made sprite with white head hair and beard

Deathwing has unique fan-made sprite with a 2x size dragon and black skin color. It looks very big.

Dentarg does not have an unique sprite, even though Incos - community member did a blue skin colored ogre sprite. But in these mods I set this sprite to be used for some Ogres & Ogre-magi.

Kurdran & khadgar don't have actual sprites that i could change nor find.

I have a zuljin green head hair sprite but didn't apply it. I had the same feeling for Lothar since this character have so little usage in just one campaign map and very little used for custom maps.

I have a custom Grunt sprite in the mods where the unit only has one eye and bald green head. But i did not use it for Grom or Kargath. Yet, I also use another fan-made sprite that looks like a Commander Grunt for some randomized grunts but not for these heroes.

I think that's it. But you can check them all by looking into these mods.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

you mean edit sprites? yes its very easy you can change GRP files with progs you can find on en.war2.ru/downloads/
and you can use code from my plugins on my github to load files from folder and change them in game on fly

That's sounds good I will definitely take a look at these.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Another thoughtful post today so I thought about some model editing what if we gonna give each hero a unique model ? Well here is what I came up with why am posting this here you ask? Cuz if it proves possible to edit models I would include that in the upcoming mod I will make inshallah 

So for the orc heroes:
dentarg model would be an ogre with some blue runes across his body to make him resemble more of his portrait

grom hellscream would lack a 2nd shoulder pad to make him look like his up to date appearance now if I remember right he has a shoulder pad on his left shoulder in wc3

Kargath would be hmmm lets see now I have seen edited models but replacing one of this guy hands with his axe? Well that will be interesting to see

Teron gorefiend ...Well if you look closely he is the only hero in the game with unique appearance his hood covering his face looks different to a normal death knight  its slightly smaller

Deathwing for this guy I think the most optimal thing would be just recoloring the whole of the dragon model to black

Human heroes:

Alleria would have a hood and a slightly visible blue rune covering a part of her face

Danath well I think just replacing the footman head with a head that looks like danath would do it may look awkward tho

Tyralyuon or whatever his name is I think there is 2 ways to go with this one either a normal knight with glowing eyes or replace the head with that of a one resembling tyralyuon I can't get his name right and don't even try to correct me on this

Khadgar is simple just slightly grey beard or the entirety of his beard is grey

Kurdian and skyree well the dwarf kurdian would have some blue runes on his cheeks maybe some blue runes across the gryphon skyree too that would do

And as a reminder to whoever is reading this I still haven't thought about a new bonus for the human transport ships.

Most of these requests or ideas are already covered up within my mods.

You can check out either of the mods:
my Universal patch v11 (multiplayer) https://gamebanana.com/mods/507336 or
Universal patch v12 (single player) https://gamebanana.com/mods/514538

Danath has a unique fan-made sprite where he has uncovered bald head and you can even see his eyes... probably need 640x480 resolution or taking a screenshot to see better his eyes

Alleria has Ranger hood that also Ranger unit has in-game

Turalyon has yellow eyes and light-blue hammer sprite, made by Incos - community member. Same for Uther I think

Lothar has unique fan-made sprite with white head hair and beard

Deathwing has unique fan-made sprite with a 2x size dragon and black skin color. It looks very big.

Dentarg does not have an unique sprite, even though Incos - community member did a blue skin colored ogre sprite. But in these mods I set this sprite to be used for some Ogres & Ogre-magi.

Kurdran & khadgar don't have actual sprites that i could change nor find.

I have a zuljin green head hair sprite but didn't apply it. I had the same feeling for Lothar since this character have so little usage in just one campaign map and very little used for custom maps.

I have a custom Grunt sprite in the mods where the unit only has one eye and bald green head. But i did not use it for Grom or Kargath. Yet, I also use another fan-made sprite that looks like a Commander Grunt for some randomized grunts but not for these heroes.

I think that's it. But you can check them all by looking into these mods.

Whoa I would like to see pics or videos that showcases these things not necessary if u can't do so your help and mistral aid is already appreciated mate.

[dannyldd]

hero custom sprites so far

[Pandaprewmaster325]

hero custom sprites so far

Those look pretty fine the 2 grunt models are exactly what I thought about deathwing look pretty intimidating danath is like how I imagined he would look and overall I can say pretty good stuff a mixture of original ogre model combined with some blue of the model seen in the picture would work well for dentarg and I think thats its for orc heroes

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Well we got 10k views on this post are those all people really interested in the balance of this 29 years old soon to be 30 years old game? Hmm really makes you think what sort of legacy blizzard left behind in their early games compared to their miserable state now , contrary to what some might say I generally do think people who play this game do want to see some balance changes if posts discussing balance can reach 20k views well thats good to know I thought this game is dead I still have to come up with unique attribute to human transport ships not that I have been lately thinking much about it im sure I can cook up something it just needs sometime so stay tuned I guess.

[Pandaprewmaster325]

So having sat down and thought a bit about the transport ship buff for the humans what I came up with might not be the most exciting buff for the transport ships currently im split between these 2 ideas

1-they can see invisible units , I think this is the best of the 2 bonuses but it might prove too strong I mean you can just scan the seas with transport ships it also feels kinda  of a meme why of all sailors in the alliance the transport ships crews can see turtles ?? Lol

2- halve the building time of transport ships this is more of the least interesting one  it could theoretically prove very useful in a situation where you are racing with the enemy to get a gold mine on a unclaimed island

Now I also think the elf destroyer could get +7 attack increase instead of +6 per upgrade ending with +14 attack instead of 12 more like unlocking a third attack upgrade without having one +6 per upgrade felt a bit underwhelming I still have to do the math.

I would try both buffs for the transport ships (do one push up everytime I say transport ships) the one that works best would be the chosen one.