Author Topic: Balance  (Read 6002 times)

Online pianolarva

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Balance
« on: March 30, 2023, 12:44:24 PM »
1:
Bloodlust:
I think it's OP as everyone says. Is there no solution? Are orcs just better in mid-game until mages get to play? Does any pro use humans?

2:
Archers:
I find them almost useless even with upgrades.

3:
Rebalanced mode:
I'm guessing the community isn't interested in balancing the game, in making every unit, spell and upgrade useful.

Online Mistral

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Re: Balance
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2023, 01:27:11 PM »
yes lust op but some super ultra pro players (like u8) play hoomans and win vs orcs using some non mainstream strats

yes archers is pitifully weak but they have some good uses like not alowing peon repair choke point building with shooting from behind or protect base


Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2023, 04:15:59 PM »
I'd like to see that.

Yes, archers work on some ocassions

Offline dannyldd

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Re: Balance
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2023, 05:38:19 PM »
bloodlust breaks the game. Any other spell is just weaker in comparison. Humans straight up cannot fight bloodlust. Another orc has no other thing that other bloodlust spam to fight against it.

About 2 and 3, there's an actual solution.

I'm a little war2 modder and I have talked to some community members but I tend to find that people are way too conservative to ever make a change for the better in game.

Archers/Rangers/Trolls/Berserkers are not necessarily bad, but bloodlust/death&decay/Blizzard are way too strong. The natural counter to these units may be fireball/death coils or Flame shield. But again, the first 3 mentioned spells are way too overpowered.

in 3) I have a little re-balance game within one of my most recent war2 public free mods, called as Road of Heroes
All my mods in: https://gamebanana.com/members/submissions/mods/1738346
Road of Heroes in: https://gamebanana.com/mods/433454

Basically, here I have managed to apply some re-balance changes to units like Rangers which get an attack speed boost with Rangers upgrade, same as berserkers but not as fast as Rangers.  Healing is also 4mana/1HP instead of 6mana/1HP to be more balanced against bloodlust and actually reward your APM for healing or Rangers micro usage. Archers + trolls also have a little boost to their base game attack speed.

Other stuff have been added up already like boosted skeletons on their skills, which makes Exorcism automatically more useful.
Gryphon Raiders + Dragons have faster attack speed.

Other planned stuff is to allow ground attack damage to apply into Gryphons or ground armor upgrades to Dragons. But also reducing range of D&D/Blizzard nor mana cost.

Still, if you're interested on more of this, you can check out my mod. Almost all the mods though are intended for Single player campaigns or custom maps.

I have came to play on other real time strategy games and overall, people are way too stubborn / conservative to ever apply a re-balance game patch for the better in any game... And I dont mean about waiting of like 2 months from testings to add like +2 damage to Grunts but actual re-balance patches that can attempt to change several other features of game to deliver whole new set of strategies.

Either way, if it's about to re-balance changes, I think the best method is this one used in League of legends where developers tend to release a new re-balance patch each 2-3 weeks to several of their in-game champions. This translated to War2, would be like applying a patch one time a month that may change about 5% of the game balance.

Fair enough to mention that, even if it's not likeable to be applied on main servers, there may still be worth to have a secondary server to allow testing up those new incoming re-balance patches... But again, this is up to community which overall seems way too conservative about it.

Hopefully this helps you out.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:53:40 AM by dannyldd »

Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2024, 09:32:02 PM »
What are the things you can modify? I may spend time on a balanced mode.

I'm looking at changing walls and making every spell/unit useful to start with.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2024, 09:37:31 PM by pianolarva »

Offline dannyldd

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Re: Balance
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2024, 05:31:11 AM »
What are the things you can modify? I may spend time on a balanced mode.

I'm looking at changing walls and making every spell/unit useful to start with.

on this mod, Road of heroes i've tweaked some stuff already:
https://gamebanana.com/mods/433454

Archers + trolls have a bit higher attack speed than base game, since these units level 1-3 do little to nothing.

Rangers + berserkers get attack speed boost once they get their upgrade. Ranger > berserker attack speeds. Rangers are now a bit more of a counter to bloodlusted ogres.

Healing from 6mana/1hp to 4mana/1hp. It really feels more fair now compared to how much damage bloodlust can deal.

I can change the mana cost for all spells now. I dont know if its possible to change the range for casting each one of the spells, though.

I was planning to increase Death & decay + Blizzard mana cost from 25 to something like 75 or 80, so it stops to allow spamming that spell non stop. And so then instantly the other area of effect spells like whirlwinds, fireballs, death coils & flame shields become stronger.


Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2024, 12:25:04 PM »
Alright, I'm going to balance this game. What I'll do is upload a modified GOWClassic pud so that anyone interested can download it and play it with the "use map settings" option.



Main changes:

- Walling will be done with actual walls. Walls will have reduced building time, higher cost, higher hp. Buildings may have lower hp.

- Modifications to make every unit/spell/upgrade useful.



Detailed info (I will be updating this):

- Archers: increased dmg.
- Gryphons/Dragons: reduced building time. increased damage.
- Towers: increased hp maybe.
- Bloodlust: increased cost.
- Blizzard/Decay: increased cost.

Online Mistral

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Re: Balance
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2024, 04:11:23 PM »
unit walls hp do NOT affect tileset walls hp AT ALL
tileset walls always have 40 hp
and unit walls always will be changed into tilesets after completion, you cannot change it
so unit wall hp only in effect while wall is in build progres, which is very fast and if you say you make it even faster then walls hp itself is not affect almost anything

on the other hand tileset walls have very big resist, they are hardcoded to receive only 25% damage from any source even from mages and spells who have only piercing attack they still get 1/4 of dmg
BUT they always will get AT LEAST 1 hp, there is even some fun bug exists, if you set some unit stats for 0-0 attack, so he basically cannot do any damage to anything at all, this units will STILL be able to break walls very slowly though, with 1 hp per hit

Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2024, 05:54:08 PM »
thanks for the info, and for killing the project.

Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2024, 10:19:42 PM »
There may be a way to edit game files and change this but I don't know how to. So that leads me to the final option:

Decrease hp, armor, damage values of everything until they are something like 35% of what they are now. Numbers would be somewhat similar. Cons: upgrades would be more powerful so they would cost more. Pros: spells would get interesting. Whirlwind would really do damage, flame shield too, and do you know what spell would actually be very good? HEALING. 150 mana would cure more than half a paladin.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 10:28:59 PM by pianolarva »

Online Mistral

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Re: Balance
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:44:08 AM »
maybe you insead try to use triggers editor?
there is way more stuff you can do with it
like changing upgrades power and spells costs
you can make map that can be played in triggers game mode

check this link for triggers editor prog: https://forum.war2.ru/index.php?topic=6242.0

Online pianolarva

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Re: Balance
« Reply #11 on: Today at 01:53:56 PM »
I'll take a look, didn't know about it. How is it not pinned on the forums? It looks great.