War2Rebalanced - We need your feedback!!!

[Dudakurten]

Thanks i will do it after work. I apologies you for the caps .

I support most of the changes as i sais before , Nice job.

[Oragorn]

I wont test it, as you said first should be test, before you add it, where was topic about at english forum before that patch? Who test it expect russians?

This is testing. As soon as we collect enough feedback from each whiner, then we will think in which direction to move.

And stop calling names by nationalities, Mr. Pole.
We are developers and have no nationality. We are working for the good of Warcraft 2.

People said that catapult repair is bad idea, did you change it allready?

We haven't changed anything yet. Several people said that it was bad - we will take that into account.
In the meantime, we continue to test.

I AM not mad cause you want change something, i mad cause you did before we talk about it, that's the problem

This is an optional feature. You, and your classic warcraft, it does not threaten in any way, calm down.

And I am not threatening you in any way. I should ask you, "Sir, may I go to the toilet?"

And asking "permission" for every single thing is not productive. "Can we make a new campaign?", "Can we make a new map for Warcraft?" etc.

U8, don't be angry. There is just a new game mode that can be tested. This does not require a mythical "permission", since does not hurt anyone's interests.

[Szwagier]

You said you talked with russians before you made this topic so i asked who test it expect russians? What is bad with this question?  How i should call russians?

[Oragorn]

You said you talked with russians before you made this topic so i asked who test it expect russians? What is bad with this question?  How i should call russians?

I didn’t say anything about the “Russians” at all. You started to weave them for some reason.

Only a few of the developers knew about this mode, who made it, and conducted the very first tests (so that there was something to insert into this mode in order to present something to the people).

EVERYONE CAN test this mode.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

Add trolls to lumbermill?!

I really believe that there's also a good change that will make the game only better and won't bring balance issues. We have too little trolls and archers as a combat unit in the game, mostly you can see people make 1 to stop someone's repair or break a stalemate of grunts standing in tight spaces. I'm talking about early game, not when newbs reach dragons and go for them. And again, you don't even need trolls / archers against those kind of people either. So here's my point: why don't we see trolls / archers in the game? Are they too expensive to afford them? - no. Are they unusabely weak? - no, but they are weaker than grunts in most scenarious and that is all that matters. It shouldn't be like that in a strategy game. They are not used just because they share the same building so that they waste barracks' training time. What I propose is to add them to lumber mill also alongside barracks so they can be produced there as an additional unit from an additional production facility. There will not be any conflict between trolls and grunts/ogres anymore and those, who want to play tier 1 / tier 2 aggression - will have more options. Options - is the correct word and you want to have more options in a strategy game. They are still weak and cost as much as a grunt, but you can build them at least now without making less grunts. You will see those one or two trolls in the army more often and be glad about it. The unit is cool, just very underused because of that issue.

Your idea is interesting but non-upgraded axers really do basically zero damage in battle, so that's why they're mostly only useful on hitting a choke line or disrupting a rep peon.  So, even if they don't occupy a barracks for training, I still think it will be rare for people to expend the money to train them when they could spend that elsewhere.  My opinion is that the upgrades need to be cheap and quick, so they can get to the higher damage in a more realistic way.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

^^ Oragorn, would really like to see your team find a way to bring axers/archers into play, could be cool

also, i think sappers are powerful enough but the train time is so long it's the primary reason they're rarely used (and lazy people not wanting to build an alchemist but oh well).  Maybe reduce training time by 25%

Finally ill join the others saying take out cat/ballista repair.

but I think it's a cool project and it's OPTIONAL like you said!

[Mistral]

sometimes peoples asking about changes than already can be made easily themselves LOL 
u know that someting like sappers training time or trolls damage can be fixed with just map editor ?
just make PUD map with fixed parameters and thats it.

[Nox]

Here what i think in general!





1) Rally-points in buildings Really great feature i love this, peoples would say it's automation but it's just a faster brain processing of the informations, making a rally point is the same thing as sending an units, the only difference is planify the shot before it happen, for me its a really great feature and peoples must adapt to this.
2) Easier multicast of spells Great Feature too, making a multicast should not be so much complicated, in middle of a war you cant waste apm with this kind of shit untill ur trolling ur opponent. So for me it's just an impovement in general.
3) Towers manual control This one is an hard one to judge, old school players always would say the tower bug is kinda a magic part of the original game.. Wich i can understand, it's very powerfull tool for pro players in old gow and maybe some others map.. But in general the probleme is the fact that if you put 2 players at the same level, in theory the bugged one should always own if they both goes on tower fights. This points is really important cuz now it mean someone got a huge advantage depending on the position he start and can barely win a fight because of that bug. I understand that some pro player would love to keep it, but if it was only from my point of view, i would get rid of that bug for ever. Winning a game cuz you abuse of a glitch in the game is not representative of skills and talent but just representative of a sad glitch!
4) Allied transports I dont know much about water map, so i cant really speak about this one, but i guess if i was a water map player i would love that one for more advance team playing!
5) Some AI fixes (the AI became stronger) Well beter are the AI more reason i got to play them!
6) Repairing ballistas and catapults Ok this one i must admit that it's a little bit too much, the reason why you cant repair a catapult it's because they are mobile and can move.. Repairing them just make any towers irrelevant at this point and kill all the aspect in oting... I understand it can be fun and be more usefull in some situation... But it also gonna kill an entire aspect of this game wich is the early close war. I think we must get rid of this one.

Orcs are not changed. And humans got the strongest balancing:  Ok this one is a touchy one, everyone want a fix since years between orcs and human. But fix dosent mean making human stronger then orc, fix mean, making them equal... Now you just replace a probleme for another probleme.. Wich for me is not a probleme at all, because i know how to play orc and i know how to play human... So playing Human or Orc for me change nothing.. But i understand 90% of the server is base on orc, lots of peoples dont know how to play human at all. So if you do this update like this, you gonna bring 90% of the player data base irrelevant with orc cuz they dont know how to play human at all.

Wich mean 10% of the pro will benefit of this update and 90% will be even more worst.

I think the fix between orc and human must be done, everyone want this since many years, but you must do it the right way, its nor valuable to make 90% of the server feeling even worst then they was and hangry to update and make basicly invincible a race that only 10% of the server play.. See what i mean, So for the moment i will get rid of it, untill you find a better fix.



1: Keep
2: Keep
3: Keep
4: Keep
5: Keep
6: Get rid of it
7: Get rid of it

So in general: Really fucking good job, i really love this patch again, you guys are doing amazing job since the last year.

I really enjoy all those updates and really appreciated them, not perfect, but in general it's always good looking, it's sweet and it bring freshness air and new strategie to the game.

Evolution is the way to keep that game interresting and i think peoples must be way much more open to them.

Thank you very much for all of this.

[Vendar]

I'm haven't been playing online for more or less 8 years, but I really love the changes you did here. Also I would love to see recruitment queue, but I appreciate what you did so far  Great job 

Maybe I will try to play with you guys and test it.

I think changes like this, that not impact the game, are the perfect way to give some fresh air.
To naysayers: remember that we are NOT playing original Warcraft 2 and we got few changes like this with BNE edition 

[Winchester]

Add trolls to lumbermill?!

I really believe that there's also a good change that will make the game only better and won't bring balance issues. We have too little trolls and archers as a combat unit in the game, mostly you can see people make 1 to stop someone's repair or break a stalemate of grunts standing in tight spaces. I'm talking about early game, not when newbs reach dragons and go for them. And again, you don't even need trolls / archers against those kind of people either. So here's my point: why don't we see trolls / archers in the game? Are they too expensive to afford them? - no. Are they unusabely weak? - no, but they are weaker than grunts in most scenarious and that is all that matters. It shouldn't be like that in a strategy game. They are not used just because they share the same building so that they waste barracks' training time. What I propose is to add them to lumber mill also alongside barracks so they can be produced there as an additional unit from an additional production facility. There will not be any conflict between trolls and grunts/ogres anymore and those, who want to play tier 1 / tier 2 aggression - will have more options. Options - is the correct word and you want to have more options in a strategy game. They are still weak and cost as much as a grunt, but you can build them at least now without making less grunts. You will see those one or two trolls in the army more often and be glad about it. The unit is cool, just very underused because of that issue.

Your idea is interesting but non-upgraded axers really do basically zero damage in battle, so that's why they're mostly only useful on hitting a choke line or disrupting a rep peon.  So, even if they don't occupy a barracks for training, I still think it will be rare for people to expend the money to train them when they could spend that elsewhere.  My opinion is that the upgrades need to be cheap and quick, so they can get to the higher damage in a more realistic way.

I could definitely see them being used from mills in a tower war as a meatshield for towers while the peons kill each other, or for helping peons escape when someone loses the war. when combined with the manual control towers though, not sure!

[Oragorn]

^^ Oragorn, would really like to see your team find a way to bring axers/archers into play, could be cool

We do have a couple of good ideas on how to make archers more useful in the game so they won't be rubbish anymore.
But everything has its time! First you need to decide on the main features.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

sometimes peoples asking about changes than already can be made easily themselves LOL 
u know that someting like sappers training time or trolls damage can be fixed with just map editor ?
just make PUD map with fixed parameters and thats it.

I know, I’ve made a pud with those, but it’s pointless because it only works with Use Map Settings and then everyone is in fixed locations and not random. Plus if this is about War2 rebalanced, i think it does need those changes too, so it can be properly rebalanced. If no one ever uses axers something ideally would be done there, right?

[justinschmidt]

we love you guys keep up the good work

[Dudakurten]

Everything is set up as you suggested.
JOIN THE GAME AND CHECK

Hey, just tested. Sorry but still has the option to change the game mode from classic to balanced on the lobby after hosting the game. I understood (as per my suggestion) the option would be available only on the Create game menu and, when people click in Join menu would show if the game is balanced or classic before they join the game with no change allowed after that, unless rehosting.

Thanks

[Oragorn]

Hey, just tested. Sorry but still has the option to change the game mode from classic to balanced on the lobby after hosting the game. I understood (as per my suggestion) the option would be available only on the Create game menu and, when people click in Join menu would show if the game is balanced or classic before they join the game with no change allowed after that, unless rehosting.

Aa! You talked about it.
This is a new feature and may be further developed.
So far, we decided to arrange it that way. The main thing is that the creator has a choice of which mode to set.
I think that in the end we will come to an ideal solution. Work is underway, and this is important.