paladins AOE passive auto heal

[Szwagier]

who would make army of skeletons and waste lot of time, instead just rape enemy with dnd?



autoheal could be fun, only if we can disable/enable it, cause sometimes holyvision or exorcism is more important, like when u are going with full mana to insta kill dk (240 mana) but he gets hit from enemy and he use mana for heal 

[WillTheRealKoorbStandUp]

other rts are lame, it's a beats b, b beats c, and c beats a. warcraft 2 is about positioning, mirco an control, knowing when to hit and when to defend not certain unit type beats this unit type. thats what makes it fun, not ops built wrong type of unit, autoloss. and humans should be weak, why races gotta be balanced? its better havin a handicap race, wea u gotta play better to win most the time. a race to challenge yourself. humans are a macro race, lusting takes focus and time, humans have more time to focus on expanding and macro.

[Nox]

other rts are lame, it's a beats b, b beats c, and c beats a. warcraft 2 is about positioning, mirco an control, knowing when to hit and when to defend not certain unit type beats this unit type. thats what makes it fun, not ops built wrong type of unit, autoloss. and humans should be weak, why races gotta be balanced? its better havin a handicap race, wea u gotta play better to win most the time. a race to challenge yourself. humans are a macro race, lusting takes focus and time, humans have more time to focus on expanding and macro.

Well i understand what you mean and thats exactly why i think we should give a try to auto heal, because at the end it change absolutly nothing in a direct fight, orc will still crush human pretty easy... The only difference is if you are good at microing and know when to ran out of a fight at the right time, you will probably save ur knights and then being ready to get back in combat.

Human will not really be stronger but only more strategic with good microing and patience.

By the way, i dont believe this argument where peoples say human are better then orc at macroing..... Human have absolutly no advantage at all at making expantion and taking control of the map, if you take someone like spb and ask him to play human as the same way that he play orc, it's gonna be the same thing, the only difference is spb gonna get crush with human cuz they are just bad at the end compare to orc.

The only advantage that human really have, is the fact that some of the upgrade cost less in wood then the orcs, wich mean you can save wood to put more pressure at ur opponent for tower or cats while you rush.

Since weapons cost no wood at all, you still can do a pretty nice rush but also can towers and cats quickers then orcs since you have save that wood.

Wich mean HUMAN are an early agressive race, when orcs is more a passive late race.

The other advantage that human can have, but not really good in old gow since you must choke almost everywhere or chop wood and making little wall beside the mine, is the fact that you can do a better dual rush then orc, because here again the upgrade of the shield will save you wood for that miracle farm that stock you when you dual rush because you have no wood.

Thats why human where really popular on GOW BT NET F in the past, cuz actually people where using human to do a great dual rush compare to orc who where struggling to keep the rythm... But on old gow its a different thing.

The goal with human is being agressive on early game and dont let breath ur oponnent any second, other then that, orc will always being better then human in late game.

Early game = Human
Mid game = Neutral
Late game = Orcs ( The probleme here, is late game can dure 1 hour, compare to early game wich dure 5-10 minutes only )

[Vendar]

who would make army of skeletons and waste lot of time, instead just rape enemy with dnd?

That's were I was talking about new units  Necrolyte from War1 would fit here for orcs, as a magician unit in early orc gameplay. Imagine army of Grunts and one/two Necrolytes behind them to raise corpses after a battle with humans. But without new units I agree that it could be very difficult to find this spell useful with DK. Maybe in case when you are waiting for new Ogres but still DnD seems to be a better choice.

humans are a macro race, lusting takes focus and time, humans have more time to focus on expanding and macro.

Just like Equinox said - that's simply not true. Humans are not a macro race, they have same economic as orcs. They are just a lot weaker in later game and you have to have 2x bigger army to deal with Ogre Mages or just clicks a lot faster than your opponent to kill all Ogres with Blizzard before he figure it out.

In 1990's Blizzard company didn't care about balance for War1 and War2. They just released War1, one year later War2, and next they focus on Starcraft.

[WillTheRealKoorbStandUp]

U guys are not seeing the point on why i said they are a macro race


Lusting and getting not caught unlusted is mirco intensive, sometimes i am macroing my halls, and i have to just drop whatever i am doing and quickly switch my focus to lusting my ogres to lust so they dont get caught unlusted. Humans dont have this problem, they A move with knights or run away, quick actions interms of mirco, giving more time for the human player to utilize on macro


Yes both have same economy but lust forces the orc to focus attention on being lusted, humans have those few seconds extra were they dont and have to make up for not having lust with more focus on macro

[Cel]

What timing are you even talking about LOL...

The way it stands right now there are no "timings" when the orc player reaches Lust there is absolutely no down time you can just turn off your brain and spam lust all the freaking time even to go scout a random part of the map there is no reason not to, you can keep it up all the time you might as well add an auto-lust to the game at this point...
Balance does not only matter between races it matters in the tech-tree as well. If you increase the cost of lust in mana you allow other spells to be used other stuff to happen in the down times. You have suddenly a decision to make are you going to lust or are you going to wait a bit more for runes. You still have the same powerfull lust that still allow you to break through shit when you reach it and take advantageous trades, but you add down times that make other things more relevant too.

I know you were never the smartest one when it came to gameplay but if your "pro" timing is basically just putting your brain in the trash can when you reach lust and spam that B button without thinking twice all the time, maybe we should just add an auto-lust that does it for you at this point this is just retarded.

Like szwagier said auto-lust auto-heal is a bad idea because it basically is saying fuck any other options lets allow people to spam shit and spam it for them.

The game should be about making these micro decisions what to use and when, not automating the whole freaking thing so that you can afford right clicking on the map without using your brain... If you want to fix the game fix the mana and research costs of things so that there is a decision to be made and not just a chain of stupid no-brainers... You might have to learn how to use your brain more during games yup. I dont think it is a bad thing to change that at all. Anyways we all will be able to try whatever we want when the update is up and we shall see...

[WillTheRealKoorbStandUp]

 those few seconds not lusting those ogres could be spent doing another round of peasants and walling an expo. With lust you have to keep your focus back to always being lusted. Its not really even a few seconds if you think about late game you are basically constantly casting lust 50% of your time playing.


U8 does fine vs lusted players with humans, do you think his mirco is that much better x3 better then a lusted ogre? no hes winning because his macro is out doing the advantage damage output of lust and with humans you simply have more time to macro because you are not casting lust every 2 seconds.

also i have no idea what you are talking about auto-casting lust. I never said anything about that, I am against any changes to gameplay.

[Cel]

I was answering equinox not you, I am also against automating gameplay

All I say is if there is any balance changes to be made it should be just tweaking numbers not changing game mechanics and certainly not encouraging spamming and automated actions. 

And yes I agree the way we human players win against orcs is by focussing on gaining a macro advantage early and pushing it. Or taking advantage of key chokes and area of the maps to make sure orcs spend more gold than they can afford to and run out of steam before we break.
You can play orcs exactly the same way too, but the difference is you do not have to because you have these other powerful options available to you.

[WillTheRealKoorbStandUp]

oh so sorry bro, disregard my comments i actually can't even remember how u play/playstyle. fk wat an idiot i am

[Szwagier]

I disagree necrolyte is the worst unit, and i never do them, skeletons weak, unholy a bit better but ai will switch target without unholy if there is more than one unit

I think you never played w1 online? Archers cats op


Also humans are good in diffrent map, special water maps, when orc player just cant attack non stop with lust

[Vendar]

I disagree necrolyte is the worst unit, and i never do them, skeletons weak, unholy a bit better but ai will switch target without unholy if there is more than one unit

I think you never played w1 online? Archers cats op


Also humans are good in diffrent map, special water maps, when orc player just cant attack non stop with lust

Yes, I played only campaigns in War1 and never online. My point is to add Necrolyte as new unit for War2 and make them (and Skeletons) useful. For example let Necrolyte be available in early game (with Great Hall). Give them three spells: Death Coil (researched), Raise Dead and Haste. Change Raise Dead cost to 25 mana and buff Skeletons to 60Hp and dmg 3-6.
In late game add new upgrade "Upgrades Into Death Knight" to transform every Necrolyte into Death Knight (same way as Ogres -> Ogre-Mages). Death Knights will be able to learn next three spells, so the late game will stay the same.
What is more, this change will be lore friendly, cause orcish Necrolytes/Warlocks changed into Death Knights in the lore 

About War1 - to be honest, I like only roads in this game Like you said Archers and Catas are op and later mass Warlocks/Wizards to summoning Daemons/Water Elementals.

[Nox]

U guys are not seeing the point on why i said they are a macro race


Lusting and getting not caught unlusted is mirco intensive, sometimes i am macroing my halls, and i have to just drop whatever i am doing and quickly switch my focus to lusting my ogres to lust so they dont get caught unlusted. Humans dont have this problem, they A move with knights or run away, quick actions interms of mirco, giving more time for the human player to utilize on macro


Yes both have same economy but lust forces the orc to focus attention on being lusted, humans have those few seconds extra were they dont and have to make up for not having lust with more focus on macro

I can understand ur point, at some point... I mean yeah you can avoid the lusting part, but you just cant send all ur units somwhere and dosent cares anymore, actually if you send them somewhere and there ogers or tower or anything, you need need even more micro to keep them alive.... The fact is ogers, dosent need that much UC... If i lust them and i send them somewhere, i dont have to cares of them anymore because they gonna rape everything... So actually i almost can have a better macro then human since human would need alot of uc to keep them alive or do alot of dmg quickly... So like i said it dosent really change anything.... If we both meet each other on middle and i am lust, believe me you will micro those knights to stay alive while i will macro at my base....

Like i say the only real difference between them is early and late game..

At least thats my point of view.

[Nox]

What timing are you even talking about LOL...

The way it stands right now there are no "timings" when the orc player reaches Lust there is absolutely no down time you can just turn off your brain and spam lust all the freaking time even to go scout a random part of the map there is no reason not to, you can keep it up all the time you might as well add an auto-lust to the game at this point...
Balance does not only matter between races it matters in the tech-tree as well. If you increase the cost of lust in mana you allow other spells to be used other stuff to happen in the down times. You have suddenly a decision to make are you going to lust or are you going to wait a bit more for runes. You still have the same powerfull lust that still allow you to break through shit when you reach it and take advantageous trades, but you add down times that make other things more relevant too.

I know you were never the smartest one when it came to gameplay but if your "pro" timing is basically just putting your brain in the trash can when you reach lust and spam that B button without thinking twice all the time, maybe we should just add an auto-lust that does it for you at this point this is just retarded.

Like szwagier said auto-lust auto-heal is a bad idea because it basically is saying fuck any other options lets allow people to spam shit and spam it for them.

The game should be about making these micro decisions what to use and when, not automating the whole freaking thing so that you can afford right clicking on the map without using your brain... If you want to fix the game fix the mana and research costs of things so that there is a decision to be made and not just a chain of stupid no-brainers... You might have to learn how to use your brain more during games yup. I dont think it is a bad thing to change that at all. Anyways we all will be able to try whatever we want when the update is up and we shall see...

Im gonna be honnest i stopped read at the rune part, where you have to make a decision between runes and lust.

It's clear that you have absolutly no idea about what you talk about, thats the reason you are not even top 100.

Dude watching u8 games with braviet and think runes is an option.

Lolol 

[Nox]

I disagree necrolyte is the worst unit, and i never do them, skeletons weak, unholy a bit better but ai will switch target without unholy if there is more than one unit

I think you never played w1 online? Archers cats op


Also humans are good in diffrent map, special water maps, when orc player just cant attack non stop with lust

Yes, I played only campaigns in War1 and never online. My point is to add Necrolyte as new unit for War2 and make them (and Skeletons) useful. For example let Necrolyte be available in early game (with Great Hall). Give them three spells: Death Coil (researched), Raise Dead and Haste. Change Raise Dead cost to 25 mana and buff Skeletons to 60Hp and dmg 3-6.
In late game add new upgrade "Upgrades Into Death Knight" to transform every Necrolyte into Death Knight (same way as Ogres -> Ogre-Mages). Death Knights will be able to learn next three spells, so the late game will stay the same.
What is more, this change will be lore friendly, cause orcish Necrolytes/Warlocks changed into Death Knights in the lore 

About War1 - to be honest, I like only roads in this game Like you said Archers and Catas are op and later mass Warlocks/Wizards to summoning Daemons/Water Elementals.

I remember in 2004 when we were playing GOW BNE F, we were always using skeletons,  skeletons are amazing to rape walled expantions, send 2 dk, decay the gold flow, make some skeletons with the second mage, and rape inside the expand... If there no tower or ogers it's gonna be a mess.

But most peoples dont know how to use spells properly.

[WillTheRealKoorbStandUp]

macro isn't just the core mechanics, the meta game also affects macro, so how players think they should be playing, may limit macro proteinal