Which is more of a hack 2?

[Nox]

Every time someone try to do something for this game, there always a bunch of haters who try to destroy him and his work.

A bunch of newbe who cant even beat SPB, and a bunch of hacker who dont use AH and customize there hotkeys with the MPQ.

This community is totally toxic and will die toxic,

Im done with this game, good luck to all, have fun.

[{Lance}]

Eq if you REALLY want war2 to look like the below image where they have a philosophy of NOTHING is a hack,  then by all means,  go join the Wargus community.  It has EVERYTHING that Lambhax is trying to implement and it's ALL NATIVE and already works GREAT.



And look at all the "cool stuff" they can do with it!  New units, new buildings, new spells, new everything!..... phhh they can keep it as far as I care,  but it sounds like what EQ wants.

WarCraft2 MIRACLE Wargus 1600 DANILIN allconsuming worlds всепоглощающие миры - YouTube 

And hell, why stop there!  You could also do this!

Storm, Earth and Fire - YouTube

Maybe you can ask iL WTF this guy is babbling about,  maybe he's explaining why they allow hacks!

ЛЕГЕНДАРНАЯ СТРАТЕГИЯ ВОЗВРАЩАЕТСЯ! - WarCraft 2 Remastered - YouTube

[shesycompany]

wyrmsun is better than wargus..it has clouds

[Incos]

Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.

[{Lance}]

Like I've said,  if you want to embrace change, an outlet for that already exists that has ALL of these changes and more over at the Wargus camp.  War2 isnt about change.  It's about keeping a great game,  great.  Not modifying it beyond recognition.  Modifications are great,  but they have a place and this isnt it.

[Szwagier]

Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.

You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

[iL]

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?

[iL]

I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.

So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?

[Nox]

Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.

It's more then just toxic, it's a real fucking joke, this game is lead by a bunch of fuck head who are mad because they have never achieve ther goal while some newbe like lambchop does it!

Look at Lance and jordan, old programmars whos cant even beat spb trying to convict us that chop bar is something wrong for the game, dudes have played this game for 20 years and still cant even beat spb once in a series of 10! How the fuck someone who dont even know how to play this game try to tell us how to play it??? The best thing those 2 guys should do hes actually using that damn chop bar and try to get better, because they both fucking suck especially lance.

After you got does peoples who dint even play this game anymore but still try to affect the result of a pool, look at winchester and blid, does guys dont even play anymore and still gonna have an impact on how we want to play this game.

After you got those guys like u8 who try to convict us that chop bar is hacking when the dude dont want to use AH at all and while he customize is hotkeys in the mpq like a fucking secret geek. Dude have the behavior of a fucking loser for this game, he suppose to be one of the best of this server and he should show exemple for every new commer in this game… But he dont fucking cares and do whatever he want, what exemple hes showing to all those peoples, do the fuck you want we dont cares at all, thats the exemple he show!

Lambchop did talk about his plug in since long time ago, when he did it 1 month ago everyone was like we will accept it if iL put it in the original version of the game and everyone have acces to it, lambchop was fucking sad and we dint see him for 2 weeks, and when iL decide to did it those guys are like no it's a hack you have to remove it.

Does guys are hypocrite and iL have never been that man who can wear those pants.

This server is a real fucking jungle were law dont exist, a jungle where mad old mens try to trolls others because they have nothing else to do in ther pathetic life.

This server need administration, moderations, programmation and love!

But those old fuck head just destroy everyone since 20 years and cockblock everything cuz they are stock in ther eternal pattern, they cant adapt to anything, they understand absolutly anything, if i was lambchop and did all this work for absolutly no reason because those cock blocker troll me i will never work again on this server.

Thats how we lose everyone, thats how we lose all the best, moustopher, tora, burnt and probably lambchop and warbux pretty soon.

Thats also why we lose players constantly.

The peoples who control this server are the people who did the less for it, blid, tk, foonat, dugs. Those guys still have impact on the decision but did absolutly nothing then wear a admin tag or even worst not playing at all.

This server need a big clean up in this administration cuz they are killing this game since long time ago whit ther bad decision.

Base there decision on the fact they dont want to lose old players, but those old players are trash and toxic for the community.

I prefere to lose 10 of those trash and gain 200 new players over the year.

200 new players who will be better then all of them in not even a year!!!

This fucking chop bar is one of the best plug in we never had in 20 years in the game itself.

Actually this version is one of the best in the last 20 years, thats the first time we have real improvement of the game and all those fuck head are already there trying to put those work and effort in trash.

There not a fucking pro who will cares about that damn chop bar, NOT ONE!!! I swear to you, only fucking newb got a word to say, but the truth is, they fucking suck and they dont have the shoes to tell us what to do with this game.

They cant even make the difference with a hack and an updates.

They are just mad because they suck even vs newbes and that chop bar will make newbes get better faster and they probably gonna lose against newbe in six month.

But for pro player it's something we dont cares at all, we dont need a fucking chop bar, we have played that game for 20 years and we know how to fucking chops and does our ressource management.

Telling me or telling to any pro players that chop bar will make a difference is a fucking insult and shame for us.

I will not accept of being scare of a chop bar, cuz i dont fucking suck AT THIS POINT LIKE THEM!

I dont cry for the chop bar, i dont cares at all of this chop bar, i cry because it's always been the same, they are cock blocking improvement of this game and make everyone fear!

This chop bar is perfect, its not big, it's look good and it will change nothing for pro players, the only thing it will change, its helping new players to get better faster.

I was so happy to see iL finnally did something big for this game, to bring us fresh air, but i was fucking wrong again, nobody in this shitty staff can wear pants and do what this game need to bring new peoples.

Im done with this fucking game, keep that 80 members toxic community, but now you will be 79, fuck all of them.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.

So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?

If it could be one version and a game host option to turn on or off the "remaster" when they host a game, that would be something pretty cool!  I am just saying that for those who like this feature, or think making these additions is a fun hobby.  I am not dying to have it myself and prefer classic play.  If "Remaster" and standard were incompatible, it would be harmful to the community.

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?

I think we should do 1 and 4.

2 and 3 -- as a smaller hack I don't know how much effort is worth it.

[Nox]

I legitimately do think it's kind of neat and can see a place for it in a "War2 Remastered" like I mentioned before.  The "Remastered" setting could include health bars, unit queues, the whole shebang, maybe could be a game host setting.

So, what is your idea about that "Remastered" then? We should make another version incompatible with current one to play, then implement some plugins like this and allow playing only Remastered with Remastered and original with original?

If it could be one version and a game host option to turn on or off the "remaster" when they host a game, that would be something pretty cool!  I am just saying that for those who like this feature, or think making these additions is a fun hobby.  I am not dying to have it myself and prefer classic play.  If "Remaster" and standard were incompatible, it would be harmful to the community.

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?

I think we should do 1 and 4.

2 and 3 -- as a smaller hack I don't know how much effort is worth it.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARD? I mean, dont we have enouph versions at the moment, why do you fucking make our staff work for absolute no reason? You fucking need more??? We dont have enouph shitty version already? And what are you doing for this game except paying 8 dollars month for the server?? Why dont you make that fucking version yourself, i mean your a trash bro,  How much do you want iL, ill pay you 2 years for the server right FUCKING NOW!

Your a trash dude, your an old fucker who cant adapt to the new generation, every fucking game in the world make update like that on ther original game, they dont fucking make new version of the game every fucking week, thats not how it work, they make update every fucking months, they add new things, they remove other ones, and everyone have to download those fucking update if they want to play, there not 20 different versions for no reason, they have 1 game, 1 version, lots of updates and millions of player.

Thats why they invented two word, BUFF AND NERFS… If something is too bad, they buff it, if something is too good, they nerfs it, but they are not scare of adaption and thats what peoples like.

Do you have ever think about the fact we cant get more then 200 players for the last 15 years while other games have MILLIONS of player? Do you really think the game is the probleme? Or maybe YOU are the probleme!

If something is too good for the game they will remove it in the next patch, thats how it fucking work, peoples love new shit even if it's bad, they just love the fact we have some updates and some peoples take cares of us.

Make a remastere version, fuck you blid, your an old piece of shit, go play baggamond if you dont already do it, dumb ass.

[Incos]

Yay, wyrmsun.

Equinox has a good point, the community here is sometimes toxic.  I honestly feel the lumber bar will help new players learn timing and resource management better and maybe close the skill gap.  I don’t particularly see it as a problem as most, but, I’m a modder who appreciates game improvement.  One thing I know is that anyone can modify the mpq files, the key change is not a hack.  In fact you can learn step by step on how to do it in the mod section. 

I’m pretty sure everyone wants to keep the game the same. Hence why I got a lot of pushback even on balancing humans (people stated orcs are not op, yet they always pick them).  RU doesn’t like change or evolution. It’s just the way of
The lands.

You cant balance human and orc, even if you make auto-heal (stupid idea 6mana = 1 hp + one hit by ogre(lvl 7 ~~24hp) instead of hit ogre), even if you will make 1 mana = 1hp, knights will only heal and watch how they die by ogres

slow still is not enough to kill 9 ogres by 9 knights, better is polymorph, but it will be op if you change mana to 100 per one polymorph
people want play orcs, why do you want them to choose human?

You cant change BL cost from 50 mana to 100 mana, cause game will be slower, people will camp more,  new ogres will be usless to defense against ogres with lust




If you are modder, why dont you help us(me) i modding MPQ? I asked many question how to change for example mission objective, adding new ai? (there are only 53 if i remember), how to change ai place for buldings, why ai sometimes stuck?

Lower gryphon cost to 1500 and make ogres undead units.  That will do two things, create air gameplay and allow paladins to actually be a thing.  Auto slow and auto heal are nice in theory... even auto slow could be nice but it wouldn’t work due to previous statements you made.

[jordan4385]

Why gotta be toxic? Seems like we are just having a nice discussion with normal insults about how much everyone sucks thrown in there for fun, typical war2 bs.

ggs nox, good to see you again.

[jordan4385]

I just dont like any changes to the game play thats all, If are are gonna have mods like this, we need to be able to enable them on game creation i think.

[{Lance}]

Well, @{Lance}, @Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) , @jordan4385 , what are your ideas about that chop bars plugin:
1. to remove it from combat.
That will not allow mass usage.
At the same time some players already can use it since May 2019, what to do with them?

2. to call it a hack?
Or to make another debate thread, continue talking about that with others, and after that to call it a hack?

3. to update antihack and add it to the list of known hacks.
To enforce that antihack to be mandatory. And ban everybody who keeps using these chop bars.

4. to just forgot about chop bars and never use it.
Is that an idea you think we should enforce now?

1.  Yes,  removing it from the installer is obviously a requirement if we truly want to keep War2 what it is,  War2 and not Wargus.  The sooner,  the better.
2.  This is 100% without a doubt, a HACK.  It meets the definition of a hack and therefore there is no choice but to call it what it is.  There is no need to debate it further since we already have concluded that it meets the definition.
3.  The anti-hack does need to be updated to include this hack and any other plugin or modification that is deemed a hack.  The anti-hack will be a never ending but necessary endevour.
4.  If you're able to add it to the anti-hack and the anti-hack is reliable, that should be enough.

So to me the path is clear.  Does this mean that it's a bad modification?  No,  absolutely not and Wargus is THE PERFECT place for these types of modifications and it doesnt require any duct tape and oxygen tanks to do,  it can all be done the correct way.  It's cool that we can do it without using wargus,  but just because it's cool, doesnt mean it should be added to this specific project.  If we do this,  it will change war2 forever and I dont know about you,  but I'd like to preserve war2 for what it was,  what it is, and what it should always be,  War2.  Who cares if people think it's imbalanced or missing modern features.  That is what makes war2,  war2.  It's not supposed to be like everything else.  I dont want to see War2 as I know it,  turned into Wargus and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way,  because if people wanted something like Wargus,  War2 would be dead and everyone would be playing Wargus on Metaservers.  That just isnt reality.

As for how to treat people using it,  I would treat them no differently than if they were using any other hack.  A hack is a hack is a hack.