I'd like to take a minute to thank Blid

[Delete mine too]

If anybody is curious as to how Tupac server is managing to gain users the answer is simple. They currently have a high energetic motivated staff... that for the time being is managing to keep their crazy under control. But they can only keep their crazy under control for so long

You all are missing the point. You don't have all the answers. I know you think you do! My staff is highly motivated that's true. But the most important part is we respect each other, people just want to play warcraft. My team is so motivated they overwhelm me. I'm doing as much as I can with a busy life. I havent even released my client yet. So you think we are growing we haven't even started, nor have we even tried to advertise, seo, etc. Only some much I can do at a time! You will definitely see us shine this summer I will have much free time. Expect us!

[Ywfn]

the admins (most) don't want me as admin. Oh well. I guess that's what happens when you talkshit about their lack of motivation

War2 is primarily losing it's player base because it's a 20+ year old game, the players keep getting older, and the community isn't very welcoming to new players. The only real things that could help is someone actively promoting the server to new players or someone who could work along-side iL on development. The first doesn't require any special access, and very few people posses the second skill.

However, extending elevated access to the wrong person could absolutely have the opposite effect. I believe most of the people over the years that have promoted themselves for admin fall in to this category.

I actually think you'd probably be fine, although you do occasionally do questionable leadership things like this rant thread you have going on here. But since you don't possess the development skills personally, about the only way I could see you making things better is if granting you that access inspired you to spend a lot of time promoting the server and helping new players at a level that far exceeds what you already do as a player.

[Lambchops]

Well today was a good day on ru.

There was a good turn out and (comparatively) lots of games 

IDK if it was a response to the current discussion, or perhaps tora got on his FB messenger, or just coincidence, but ultimately idc because I am just happy to see people playing wc2 anywhere ... so YAY 


>> I would like to say, that despite my recent comments about past events, I HAVE noticed that the community in general has become a bit more civil of late.<<

Perhaps we are all getting a bit wiser. Maybe the abscence of couple of the overtly toxic people who don't seem to be around as much, setting the tone, has played a part idk, but recently I do think the server has generally had a better atmosphere, so good work us


                            -=   =-|-=   =-


I see there's a fresh round of blid-bashing and admin bashing in general, gotta say a couple of things:

@tk[as], when has the line "I hate you guys, fuck you, you all suck, I should be the boss, can I be the boss?" worked anywhere, ever?

I wasn't very active when you were admin, so I don't know. Despite (obviously) disagreeing with you on some of things, you seem to be a reasonably decent guy who loves the game... perhaps you could be a decent admin. I'm not joining your campaign team or anything, but I think the biggest factor against you is that you keep flaming the shit out of people - *that is not very adminly behavior.

I like blid, he's a nice guy. He's not a very hands-on admin that's true, but I think that is the result of a (right or wrong) historical community policy decision as much as his laid back nature. Also with the amount of flaming/complaining/arguing that has gone on over the years, I would expect it to be a full-time paid position for anyone to actually read and adjudicate on all that crap. I know I sure couldn't do it.

I think if you seriously and sensibly approach blid with an issue he will listen and have a fair crack at making a fair decision. There's no point in saying, "I've been spitting flames all over the forum for days and you havn't done anything", because the chances are he hasn't even read it, and neither has anyone else. I think the same can usually be said of the other admins that I know.

i don't want to take care of that as i'm not a native-spoken english and it's quite difficult for me to understand some moments. But the main reason is i don't understand mentality of our community, i even don't know most players here, so, i'd prefer to work on technical questions.

Yeah, it's hard enough to wade through it all as a native english speaker, that is why there's a number of admins. I think most people understand your role to be more of a technical server admin than directly managing the personal issues.

You guys dropped the ball by not banning BabyShark and Tupac. I think you lost the trust from a lot of the community there.

IMO the people who were using the "BabySharkIsFat" etc. names should have had those names removed and been warned to cut it out, that's just nasty and unnecessary. I have used parody names myself on individual occasions or for a joke, but after the fact like that?... it's a bit off, just laying the boots in, however allowing that sort of thing is in line with policy.

Arguably it could have been a fair decision to ban BS and tupac from this forum for actively promoting another server here, and I am sure that pleanty of other sites would have done that, but I think it is absolutely the right decision not to: you can't have a wild west anything goes free speech policy and then ban people for posting flyers over the graffiti. So I think that is consistant and appropriate.

I see absolutely no reason for either of them to be banned from the server, unless you are going to convict tupac of DDOSing just because you want it to be him.

My idea: if we ban someone, he will go away, so the community will decrease.

Banning should always be a last resort. If we have standards of decency we can apply social pressure. I just takes a few well respected people to publicly tell others when their behavior is inappropriate. At the time. In game or in the channel. If someone is being really harsh, say something. The excuse that they are a good player and may have a point is not really good enough. You can make a point without being a total van about it. Give respect - get respect.

for the time being is managing to keep their crazy under control.

That's all any of us need to do. Anyone still playing this game is a bit loopy in one way or another, but as long as we can mostly keep our nuts in the jar this game will be a lot more accessable. Nobody wants to see people with their nuts hanging out, it's just unsightly.

p.s. tupac: nobody believes anything you say

Just like none wants you to have admin.

LOL epic get your backspace key onto that tk..

[~ToRa~]

IDK if it was a response to the current discussion, or perhaps tora got on his FB messenger, or just coincidence, but ultimately idc because I am just happy to see people playing wc2 anywhere ... so YAY 

Lol, I’m pretty busy right now with my current project but I’ll have some free time come May. Then I’ll do some fresh rounds of tournament hosting.

[shesycompany]

dudes there's people around  ,look at fios post 100+ downloads on a picture and that post is like what 2 weeks old...feeling sceered!

warcraft 2 isnt going to die,people just dont sit in bnet anymore,you got discord and stuff and they play when they want.

i dont want anyone really playing alot,i think we all know how addicting war2 can be.
like 18 hrs a day  like the good ole days  gone get beer 

[iL]

@Lambchops you look like one of the most sane man here!
Nice to read your posts!
Several more people with such feeling in our community, and it would be much more pleasant!

I wasn't very active when you were admin, so I don't know. Despite (obviously) disagreeing with you on some of things, you seem to be a reasonably decent guy who loves the game... perhaps you could be a decent admin. I'm not joining your campaign team or anything, but I think the biggest factor against you is that you keep flaming the shit out of people - *that is not very adminly behavior.

Let me explain why i'm not so enthusiastic about tk's admin job.

The main thing here is reliance. We trust he will never do something wrong before discuss that to us.

I think, admin should use his admin facilities according to other admins in the team. If he do something, he need to be sure other admins agree with his action or at least have no protests against that. When one of admins just decides to delete some thread on the forum or delete somebody with all his posts despite of other team opinions, that is not an admin i'd like to welcome in our team.
I don't want to know i can join the forum and not to find some post or topic, "just because some admin decided that should not be here".
That is the main and purely technical reason i don't recommend tk to be a forum admin.
At the same time i don't protest about some admin access on the server. I mean, from technical side. There's no important data in the pvpgn database, all the admin commands being logged, so even if one of admins decides to erase someone's stats for some unknown reason, that will be easy to restore it, or just stay as is.

About common sence: i actually don't see how admin on the server will help tk to do what he wants to do:
To make tournaments? To advertise in socials? To make some more activities around the project? I'd be happy if he decide to do that. But how being admin will help here?

At the same time tk have no plans to catch/ban cheaters, to moderate forum (as i understand he hates any moderation), so, w/e?

When some of our players make tournament, i give them an admin icon in bnet chat. To make others see he is a tournament admin. And maybe that's pleasant for tournament admin. At the same time such icon gives nothing except pleasure.
If tk needs some mark of admin for his own pleasure - i'd be happy to do that! But with no real access to delete/change things as for admins who really handle such content.

"Keep flaming the shit" is less important factor, though it's one of the reasons too. At the same time i absolutely understand tk being angry after exiting his moderation job. Looks like he is not against me and our admin team last time, i like to see that.
I have nothing against tk personaly, his relations with other members are only his relations. And he could be a very good guy to promote war2 game and community, to make some social work for it and so on!

IMO the people who were using the "BabySharkIsFat" etc. names should have had those names removed and been warned to cut it out, that's just nasty and unnecessary. I have used parody names myself on individual occasions or for a joke, but after the fact like that?... it's a bit off, just laying the boots in, however allowing that sort of thing is in line with policy.

Absolutely agree, that is not relations we should tolerate here! Even rules denies such things. Such "jokers" should be banned with that "joke" account, same as his main account, and BabyShark is absolutely right to protest against such attacks.
That's sad, but i even didn't know about that.

The problem is pvpgn is still absolutely not designed to handle such types of behavior: anybody can just rejoin with newly created account from proxy and that will no common way to prevent this.

Arguably it could have been a fair decision to ban BS and tupac from this forum for actively promoting another server here, and I am sure that pleanty of other sites would have done that, but I think it is absolutely the right decision not to: you can't have a wild west anything goes free speech policy and then ban people for posting flyers over the graffiti. So I think that is consistant and appropriate.

Absolutely agree: i don't like that actions for promoting some server positioned like "server against ours" or w/e and use our server for that promotion. That looks insane for me, but i prefer to make some technical job and expect other admins do something with that.

Banning should always be a last resort. If we have standards of decency we can apply social pressure. I just takes a few well respected people to publicly tell others when their behavior is inappropriate. At the time. In game or in the channel. If someone is being really harsh, say something. The excuse that they are a good player and may have a point is not really good enough. You can make a point without being a total van about it. Give respect - get respect.

Absolutely agree: if someone makes troubles for us, that means he/she tries to say something important to us. Our task is to listen, understand and find mutually profitable decision.
I'm sorrow about BabyShark, i trust she could become a very good help for our community, to make it clean from toxicity. Looks like she is an active player, she likes war2, so she could turn the community to civil and positive way. And i'd be happy to make some conditions to help her with that great job.

I think, if we have to ban somebody, that means our admin job was bad.

[Shotgun]

You guys dropped the ball by not banning BabyShark and Tupac. I think you lost the trust from a lot of the community there.

GOG will be fun to see if the game blows up or not.. If not I have found enough other interests anyways it is too depressing for me to log onto a empty server.

There was a ton of momentum going and things were on a upswing before server attacked and I just don't know if you guys can turn it around now. The new combat updates give it hope but seems a little too late. We had the ddraw fix like what 5 years ago?? Now by time its been added the next windows version probably coming where another new one will be needed.

The discord is a great meet up place too that might dig you guys out of this hole. If enough people keep registering there and meeting up for games..but things look gloomy.

You destroyed this game don't blame noone else. The first time you banned me over 8 years ago because you got owned. You should of been permanently banned then and there. You are a criminal in real life, you are a coward! What about when you called my employer a few months back? You should of been permanently banned again. I'm still awaiting for the FBI to kick in my door. Babyshark has caught you in lie after lie after lie. How did you know about a server attack before it happend. Let's watch you dodge all these questions. Of course you want me and babyshark banned because we exposed you for what you really are.

How does banning you ruin war2?

[O4L]

You guys dropped the ball by not banning BabyShark and Tupac. I think you lost the trust from a lot of the community there.

You think we should ban people right after they begin to criticise us?
You are stiil the main leader in our community for many people, include me.
So i apreciate you ideas, but i still not understand them.

My idea: if we ban someone, he will go away, so the community will decrease. If other will dislike our hard behavior, they will go away together with banned player to make their separate server together. That is a very quick way to loose the community.

At the same time i agree we should not let toxic atmosphere eat us. Maybe our policy if too soft, you'll never know the best way till you try that...

He took the server down for 3 weeks while BabyShark tried to move the playerbase. They should have been banned. Then you let them spit their bullcrap propaganda after the fact.

[tk[as]]

^^^^


on a different note, I personally would like to know where lamb chops is dedicating the majority of his assistance. With Tupac's server? or .ru?

[Delete mine too]

^^^^


on a different note, I personally would like to know where lamb chops is dedicating the majority of his assistance. With Tupac's server? or .ru?

Where ever he wants too. Hes a grown ass man.

You guys dropped the ball by not banning BabyShark and Tupac. I think you lost the trust from a lot of the community there.

You think we should ban people right after they begin to criticise us?
You are stiil the main leader in our community for many people, include me.
So i apreciate you ideas, but i still not understand them.

My idea: if we ban someone, he will go away, so the community will decrease. If other will dislike our hard behavior, they will go away together with banned player to make their separate server together. That is a very quick way to loose the community.

At the same time i agree we should not let toxic atmosphere eat us. Maybe our policy if too soft, you'll never know the best way till you try that...

He took the server down for 3 weeks while BabyShark tried to move the playerbase. They should have been banned. Then you let them spit their bullcrap propaganda after the fact.

Ohh you mean the guy you paid took down the server for 3 weeks? How'd you know it got ddosed before it got ddosed?

You guys dropped the ball by not banning BabyShark and Tupac. I think you lost the trust from a lot of the community there.

GOG will be fun to see if the game blows up or not.. If not I have found enough other interests anyways it is too depressing for me to log onto a empty server.

There was a ton of momentum going and things were on a upswing before server attacked and I just don't know if you guys can turn it around now. The new combat updates give it hope but seems a little too late. We had the ddraw fix like what 5 years ago?? Now by time its been added the next windows version probably coming where another new one will be needed.

The discord is a great meet up place too that might dig you guys out of this hole. If enough people keep registering there and meeting up for games..but things look gloomy.

You destroyed this game don't blame noone else. The first time you banned me over 8 years ago because you got owned. You should of been permanently banned then and there. You are a criminal in real life, you are a coward! What about when you called my employer a few months back? You should of been permanently banned again. I'm still awaiting for the FBI to kick in my door. Babyshark has caught you in lie after lie after lie. How did you know about a server attack before it happend. Let's watch you dodge all these questions. Of course you want me and babyshark banned because we exposed you for what you really are.

How does banning you ruin war2?

Well how many people did he ban because he lost in free castles? He has a long history in abusive admin. What if he banned you because you beat him in GOW?

[Lambchops]

on a different note, I personally would like to know where lamb chops is dedicating the majority of his assistance. With Tupac's server? or .ru?

I'm willing to collaborate with anyone who is working towards the betterment of wc2.

I am not supporting either server over the other, I am happy to play anywhere there are people having fun playing wc2.

As you have probably guessed, I don't mind typing and I have had a lot of private discussions with verious people who have various levels of programming skill, and tried to learn from and help them all. That includes both iL and Tupac and quite a few others as well.

Quite honestly mate, I rarely "choose sides" when grooups of people are posturing at each other. Most groups will have a range of people from the exceptional to the aweful. I try to remain loyal to those who give me the same, and I try not to judge thise that I don't particularly click with.

Most recently I was collaborating with iL. When he started the wc2 font project, he had an idea, posted his source and it was a good thing for the game in general. We spent a bit of time working on it, ec helped out with some testing, and I think we came up with a good result in the end. WC2 gets a little bit better ... everyone wins.