Warcraft 2 Ru's Policy on harassment

[Cel]

Personally some level of trash talking and saltiness is fine like last tournament Van being savage and explaining how to quit the game when he wins is savage and even can be quite entertaining and fun to be honest I had a good laugh.

The line to not cross I guess if I had to name it would be direct, targeted and uncensored racist/homophobic insults after games in the channels. I literally had to scroll up so my stream would not have the time to read all that crap. That was too much and I am pretty sure we all know the difference.
I mean I am pretty sure anyone can see the difference between being unfriendly, savage and salty versus promoting racial hate, antisemitic insults or homophobic violence even if it is for fun the problem is new players they do not see that, they do not know you, they first see you and all they might take the time to see about you could be just that.

Igognito is right I do not want to ban Van for saying these things I want him and these players to understand the difference and to try to not cross the line as much as possible.

Because I am pretty sure in the end we have a common goal everyone wants to have more people on the server.

Now I don't know what is easy to do I was proposing short bans but yeah it is as useless as it sounds and maybe hard to do. The thing is at least we put it out there and from all of these imagined solutions maybe one can be applied.

So in the best of the worlds I would see a soft punishment like the following:
One cool way would be if we could like mute a player by default
Say a player X is muted for having crossed the line then to talk with him by default you would have to unmute him manually until the mute duration is passed. its not a ban and would be more directly targeted and honestly I find it quite fun too
Seemed to me like a harder thing to do even if seems like a better and more targeted solution but lets put it out here we never know maybe it helps finding a suitable and more doable solution...

Or/and preventive solutions:
One of the non-punishing preventive solutions would be to have filters like some games do by default and players can remove them if they want. (you know the good old stars ****)
That usually takes care of most of the big bad words and stuff people do not want their kid to see.

IDK this to me also seem like one of the hard to implement solutions but hey, lets put it on the table too we never know and it does not hurt to have a look at it.

 

[Lambchops]

Take for example van. Van is toxic but I would never report him. I actually play with him and expect him to be toxic, I even want him to be toxic because I know it is van!

Igognito is right I do not want to ban Van for saying these things I want him and these players to understand the difference and to try to not cross the line as much as possible.

WTF? You say you want people who repeatedly harass people punished ..... but not van because he does it all the time?

WHAT??

The guy is toxic and abusive, but he's YOUR friend so its ok? No it's not.

[Cel]

Well as I said the point is less about how to ban/punish him and/or others than to make him/them stop crossing the line (that yet has to be defined).
Now if it takes bans to make him understand where the line is I am not against it I am just saying I am open for better targeted solutions if we can afford them.

Remember though this is not about one person I only picked Van as an example because the example was fresh in my mind.
But he is not the only one, it would be unfair to just pick on one guy as if he was the only reason we have a problem.
If it wasn't Van it  would be someone else as long as there are no defined limits.
Van is not the source of the disease he is a symptom.

 

[Lambchops]

Van is not the source of the disease he is a symptom.

So far as I know him he has just attacked me with literally zero provocation just because I made a general post about etiquette on this forum. That make him absolutely a major source in my experience. Since then many people have said to me "oh that's just van he does it to everyone". To which my reply is ok well then screw him and the horse he rode in on.

But anyway, my position on this topic remains that we don't need another set of rules to argue over, we just need it to be generally accepted that being an asshole is not ok. Everyone has bad days or occasional arguments, but being continually toxic all the time is not ok.

By the sounds of things van is the epitome of the exact type of behavior we don't want. It's not cute or quirky or that's just van, it's a serial toxic abuser.... and the horse he rode in on.

[shesycompany]

20 years from now 2038 most of us will be like clint eastwood from gran torino by then.

[Lambchops]

20 years from now 2038 most of us will be like clint eastwood from gran torino by then.

You mean after a lifetime of being abusive racist assholes we will finally do one selfless thing then die?

Cool, I look forward to that post...

[~ToRa~]

WTF? You say you want people who repeatedly harass people punished ..... but not van because he does it all the time?

WHAT??

The guy is toxic and abusive, but he's YOUR friend so its ok? No it's not.

Lol that's the thing, if we were to enforce rules the way some players on this thread are advocating regular players like van would inevitably be banned.

[Ywfn]

While I wouldn't really object to a kinder, more accepting atmosphere, I'm opposed to increased censorship measures to regulate asshole behavior as a practical matter for three primary reasons:
1. As already mentioned in this thread, I worry about the unintended consequences for otherwise mild players getting baited in to an argument.
2. The status quo has been established for so long--many current players being part of the community for a decade or longer, that I think change would be difficult for some.
3. While I get that slippery slope is a named argument fallacy, I really do appreciate the administrator's position not to take restrictive on players for pretty much anything except for cheating.  Administrators have changed over the years, but that has remained a constant.  This is not a door I'd like to see opened.

[Lambchops]

WTF? You say you want people who repeatedly harass people punished ..... but not van because he does it all the time?

WHAT??

The guy is toxic and abusive, but he's YOUR friend so its ok? No it's not.

Lol that's the thing, if we were to enforce rules the way some players on this thread are advocating regular players like van would inevitably be banned.

I really don't want to see anyone banned, but openly stating: we will not ban anyone because there are regular players who are complete assholes is just an open invitation to everyone to just keep going.

I honestly would not reccommend war2.ru to anyone who knew my family simply because I am too embarassed to be associated with such a purile group. Even just the main channel is severely NSFW ... or even family and friends... and I quite often swear in normal conversation.

If it takes banning someone to make people stop and think it might be necessary.

Are you suggesting that van is some kind of genuine social retard who honestly CAN'T stop abusing people?... because I'm assuming he just does it because he likes doing it and he can. This is like saying we can't ban map hacks because regular players use them.... no, you just hit them with the naughty stick until they stop bloody hacking.

I'd like to stick up for van here and suggest that he ISN'T some kind of retarded moron, and that he could stop being an utter prick if he put his mind to it.

We don't need more rules, just admins willing to take the issue seriously.

Thoughts anyone? ... van?

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

the poll isn't great because people voting against the "harassment policy" could be against it because they want it to go further, OR because they think it goes too far.  so the written policy is probably even a better compromise position than it would seem.

[shesycompany]

jehova witness + war2  maybe everything went south bitter is a emotion the worst..but somewhere on this round object people are getting killed it never has really ended..rejoice in the day the lord made but for alot is thier last they dont have tommorow and im buzzed gone to jam hell im quiting i got enuff speakers around this place

[Cel]

While I wouldn't really object to a kinder, more accepting atmosphere, I'm opposed to increased censorship measures to regulate asshole behavior as a practical matter for three primary reasons:
1. As already mentioned in this thread, I worry about the unintended consequences for otherwise mild players getting baited in to an argument.
2. The status quo has been established for so long--many current players being part of the community for a decade or longer, that I think change would be difficult for some.
3. While I get that slippery slope is a named argument fallacy, I really do appreciate the administrator's position not to take restrictive on players for pretty much anything except for cheating.  Administrators have changed over the years, but that has remained a constant.  This is not a door I'd like to see opened.

As I mentioned, even if you are pushed hard there is a difference between being salty or insulting and promoting racial hate, antisemitic talks, or homophobic violence...
I do not mind censorship for the three last ones honestly.

Also as I mentioned banning people wont solve anything by itself.
The goal here is to improve the atmosphere for new players not punish people I don't care what you have done in the past I just want us as a community to stop pushing new comers away plain and simple.

Now banning seemed like a easy solution but still the best solutions for me are:
- Chat profanity filters enabled by default that you can disable if you are ok with reading disgusting things. (I would definitely enable these when I stream)
- Mute players that do not behave for a duration, a muted player is squelched by default for everyone else players are free to unsquelch him if they want to but by default he speaks to himself. < Now that would be the best sentence because targeted toward what really was not ok.

None of these involve banning people as you might be able to tell.
Now if these cannot be adopted because too complicated we still can try to teach people not to cross lines using slowly increasing ban durations just saying that is still better than no actions at all.

Because yes some people's freedom of speech right now, directly impacts everyone else's fun by pushing people away and polluting our common space.
You want more freedom? Me too!
I am pretty sure new players would like to have the freedom to play the game without being directly attacked or exposed to disgusting and endless monologues.

About things always being that way have a look to the allegory of the cavern that is the only thing I see coming from that argument...
Now if there is a way to improve everyone's fun and freedom at a minimal cost for the most toxic of us by forcing them to behave a little that is definitely a door I'd like to see opened, it is ok to fear progress that should not stop us from seeking it

[Lone]

If you ban trash talking, Swift will stop winning games in chat lobby and get raped 24/7.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

We're going to ban performance enhancing drugs (no more niacin)

[tk[as]]

How does swift get to trash talk you lone? You dominate him on fastest.