serious question

[Lambchops]

well for starters you just called Lambchops a newb faggot whom I've never seen being mean to anyone.

Aww thanks @BabyShark I missed that one.

So for the record @jordan4385, I'm actually a non-homophobic newb hetro, so I don't actually take that as an insult. On the other hand if I was a gay newb I would probably take offence at the term 'faggot' and call you a cock-juggling lamer with the IQ of an average 4-slice toaster, but hey, I really don't care that much 

-- edit --

Oh yeah on further investigation I think you meant to call Sentinal1 a newb faggot, not me. np stuff happens... and BTW I really don't give a toss who sucks who's weiner around here.

how can you be aware of richard dawkins..... almost made a point then totally blew it by spraying a bunch of inaccurate and irrellivant hate-fuelled abuse

Do you realise how utterly retarded you have to be to make me stick up for the fundementalist christian in a discussion like this? OMG how do you fail that hard? Ima call your mom right now and tell her to slap some decency into you.

[I hate naggers]

why do you think your opinion matters? youre juts frustrated because out of your home and at difficult time of life, is ok, but its stupid of you to think that i care about literally anything you idiots post about richard dawkins.
a wanna-be non-hacker and someone denying evolution

[Lambchops]

why do you think your opinion matters? youre juts frustrated because out of your home and at difficult time of life, is ok, but its stupid of you to think that i care about literally anything you idiots post about richard dawkins.
a wanna-be non-hacker and someone denying evolution

Ok, that was much better. Well done

.... and for the record I havn't posted anything about richard dawkins, whoever that is.

[Ze_sAiNt]

This is a good question, a fair question. If most religions are false, and there sure are a lot of them, how do you know yours is true?

There are 8747 false gods mentioned in the Bible. The number of false gods throughout history is most likely uncountable.

There certainly is a designer of the universe. Even Richard Dawkins sees this, yet claims that the fact that everything appears to be designed is an "illusion" and that perhaps aliens started life on earth (since science cannot answer how life originated). The origin of the universe and the origin of life are outside of science. We can look at what we can learn from science, things we can observe, study, test, demonstrate, repeat to come to logical conclusions. It is a logical conclusion when presented with ordered information such as DNA, the blueprint for life, that is too complex for the human mind to understand, since intelligent information has never been observed to form itself, that an intelligent mind produced it. It is logical to conclude that a very intelligent mind designed this universe.

So whose mind was it? Was it an alien, as Dawkins suggests? I don't think so. Dawkins is fine with the idea of intelligent design (if it's an alien that doesn't have rules for our lives) but the idea of the true God from the Bible is abhorrent to him, not because of science, but because of our evil sinful nature that rebels against God and wants to be our own god.

How do we know the maker of the universe? How do we learn what this entity is and wants?

The vast majority of humans have been theists, because it is the inescapable reality that this world was created by someone superior to humans.

God has given us the Bible so that we can learn about Him, and most importantly, learn about Jesus, the ONLY answer to the problem we all have. We are sinners. We've broken God's rules, we've used God's name in vain, we've despised God and His Word, we've dishonored our parents, we've refused God's gifts, we've have murderous thoughts and hurtful actions towards other people, we've had lustful, adulterous thoughts and actions, we've coveted what isn't ours to have, we've stolen and we've lied. We haven't loved other people as we should. We've been greedy, gluttonous, self-absorbed, proud, conceited, boastful, hateful, and all around disgusting. Offensive in the sight of a holy God.

God's love for us was so vast that He became a human, kept the law perfectly in our place, so that He could be the substitute for us and take God's wrath on Himself. Jesus was crucified and died and was buried. He then rose from the dead, appeared to many disciples, and eventually ascended to heaven, and will return in might and power as King to judge the world.

I can't wait to see Him. Everyone who has rejected Him will shake in terror when that day comes, since they will be standing on their own account of actions, thoughts, and words before a holy and just God who judges evil.

I won't be standing on my own account of actions. I will be standing on the holy, perfect account of Jesus Christ, which He has given to me as a free gift through faith, and offers to you as well.

This is what the Bible teaches.

So why am I convinced? How do I know it's true? Am I just brainwashed and accept whatever I was taught?

Let's investigate.

The historicity of Jesus is undeniable. Jesus existed in history, and even Christianity's historical haters and opponents didn't bother trying to deny the existence of Jesus. So who was this Jesus? Was he just a man who managed to deceive a lot of people into thinking He was God? Or was His claim that He is God true?

There is a very low resurrection rate among dead people. Most of the people who die stay dead.

Jesus didn't stay dead. He appeared to many disciples, many of whom were killed for defending their faith. They were eyewitnesses, they were there. If they HADN'T seen a resurrected Jesus, they would certainly not be willing to die to defend the truth that they had.

The Bible is historically and scientifically accurate. The Bible is beyond any book that has ever been written by people. It is filled with goodness, righteousness, truth, wisdom, fulfilled prophecies from hundreds or thousands of years earlier. Look into the historical veracity of the Bible.

The teachings found in it are not of human origin. The teaching of Jesus Christ is counter to sinful man's mind. ALL false religions are based on works-righteousness, that we have to earn our way into god's favor by following rules. The teaching that we are saved by grace through faith is contrary to the human mind that wants, in pride and rebellion, to be good enough without God.

We need saving. Look at the world around you. It's falling apart.

Bombings, suicides, murders, rapes, hatred, wars, child abuse, divorce, poverty, and the grave where we are all destined to decay are a snapshot of the evil inside of every human being.

I believe the truth of the Bible because all the evidence points there. The Bible has been right about everything, from the sinfulness of man, to the fact that the earth hangs upon nothing (which was in the Bible in Job 26:7 something like 3500 years ago, which was discovered much later by people to be true, as impossible as it seemed to ancient people that something could hang on nothing). There are many examples in the Bible where God revealed in Scripture what scientists discovered much later.

The Bible is the truth, it's trustworthy, it's the Word of God, and it's given to us because God loves us and wants us to know Him and know the truth.

Nothing is more important than knowing Him, Jordan.

Don't wait. Don't ignore it. God's calling you now.

We never know when our time of grace will be up, whether we will first die or whether Jesus will return to judge the world first. It could be tonight.

I knew it wouldn't take long for BabyShark to resurface from her hibernation and come up with another "Allah was invented by a man..." claim and "Jesus died for our sins".  I just didn't expect her new victim to be Jordan!

Jordan - don't listen to her.  You're free to practice any religion you want.  There is no compulsion in religion as the Qur'an says (Qur'an 2:256).  There is no need for BabyShark or anyone else to force Christianity or any other religion down your throat.  You can see where truth lies and choose your own path.

BabyShark - if you think you're gonna be saved just by believing that Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior, died for your sins, then read your Bible again because Jesus says:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." [Matthew 7:22-23]

Jesus is not gonna address the muslims, hindus, jews and buddhists in that statement.  He will say that to YOU BabyShark, who call yourself a Christian.  Why?  Because YOU called him Lord.  He is not your Lord.  The Father in heaven is.

Come talk to me BabyShark.  Your arguments are weak. They didn't work on me and I refuted all of them in earlier threads... I find it lame that you are now trying your luck with Jordan with those very same arguments in hope that it might work on him.

[~ToRa~]

Everyone knows "Allah" means "God" in Arabic right?

[jordan4385]

oh jesus christ.

[Lambchops]

Everyone knows "Allah" means "God" in Arabic right?

Yeah, and it's exactly the same GOD that the hebrews and the christians worship, they just bicker about the propherts.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

well for starters you just called Lambchops a newb faggot whom I've never seen being mean to anyone.

Aww thanks @BabyShark I missed that one.

So for the record @jordan4385, I'm actually a non-homophobic newb hetro, so I don't actually take that as an insult. On the other hand if I was a gay newb I would probably take offence at the term 'faggot' and call you a cock-juggling lamer with the IQ of an average 4-slice toaster, but hey, I really don't care that much 

-- edit --

Oh yeah on further investigation I think you meant to call Sentinal1 a newb faggot, not me. np stuff happens... and BTW I really don't give a toss who sucks who's weiner around here.

how can you be aware of richard dawkins..... almost made a point then totally blew it by spraying a bunch of inaccurate and irrellivant hate-fuelled abuse

Do you realise how utterly retarded you have to be to make me stick up for the fundementalist christian in a discussion like this? OMG how do you fail that hard? Ima call your mom right now and tell her to slap some decency into you.

I got a kitchenaid 4 slice toaster for myself for Christmas and it's really good.  learning that I like to set the darkness to 5 for Ego waffles, but only a 2 for poptarts.  I get these big soft Snyders pretzels from the freezer aisle and those i set the darkness to 3-4 and they come out nice and toasted on the outside and soft and warm on the inside.

[Lambchops]

I got a kitchenaid 4 slice toaster for myself for Christmas and it's really good.  learning that I like to set the darkness to 5 for Ego waffles, but only a 2 for poptarts.  I get these big soft Snyders pretzels from the freezer aisle and those i set the darkness to 3-4 and they come out nice and toasted on the outside and soft and warm on the inside.

Nice man, that sounds like a seriously above average 4 slice toaster

[~ToRa~]

@eyyy im walkin here

This is a gold mine thread.

[LiveFreeorDie]

I just didn't expect her new victim to be Jordan!

Definition of victim: a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action

How exactly is Jordan a "victim" here?

You have refuted exactly nothing I've said, Ze_Saint.

You insist on defending a religion whose "holy" writings promote beating women, stoning women, killing Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslims including fake "hypocrite" Muslims who do not want to kill non-Muslims, forcibly marrying children, and cutting off little girls' sexual organs while they are struggling, flailing, and screaming. Your best, most recent defense is the opinions of some random people who are either ignorant or evil (in order to defend a religion that endorses these evils). That argument is so weak that it simply isn't worth addressing. As if human opinion proves anything. If a human opinion proved a matter, then all my points are automatically proven, including my opinion that the Bible is true, because it's my opinion, if human opinion proves truth. But human opinion does not prove truth.

I can see that you are determined only to be hostile and aggressive and attack me and have no interest in learning the truth. If you did, you would have come to the truth from the many, many Scripture passages I showed you that prove that Jesus is God and that Jesus did die for our sins and was raised to life and ascended to heaven and will come back in glory to judge the living and the dead.

You don't believe that. I do believe that. I believe the Bible is true. You don't. You are free to believe as you wish, and I can see that you are determined and are not at this time going to be swayed by the truth.

Even people who do not believe that the Bible is true recognize that the Bible does teach that Jesus is God.

I'm happy to spend my time talking to people who are actually interested in truth, but when people are repeatedly shown, for example, Scripture that says that Jesus is God and refuse to acknowledge it and still keep saying the Bible doesn't teach that Jesus is God, it just becomes unprofitable to spend time engaging with a person who will not accept evidence from a source that they claim to acknowledge as an authority. You also refuse to acknowledge the evidence found in the Qu'ran and other Islamic texts that clearly teaches the things I mentioned above, and insist that they are "out of context" which is nonsense. If they are taken "out of context," and millions of Muslims follow them, why are none of the Muslims with "proper understanding" trying to stop them from killing people or taking over the world? Anyone can Google the Qu'ran verses and look up the context to see where they are. I encourage all people who want to know what Islam really teaches to just read the Qu'ran and hadiths for themselves and see what they say and not rely on Muslims who are practising taqiyya and being deceptive and dishonest when their numbers are below majority so as not to alarm the population that they are infiltrated and to be taken over once the Muslim percentage reaches majority. Taqiyya is the Islamic teaching that Muslims are allowed to lie to non-Muslims in order to make their religion sound less dangerous than it actually is to non-Muslims, in the interest of ultimate Islamic takeover.

These truths are found in Islamic writings and in the mouths of Islamic leaders who are teaching Muslims according to Islamic writings, as have been shown in videos already.

The devil doesn't care what lies people are deceived by as long as they are not saved from their sin by the only Savior there is. Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, the only Savior from sin, the only name under heaven given among men by which we may be saved.

Acts 4:10b-12

 It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

[shesycompany]

i like the 10 commands ..cool toaster blid! even how to get a ip address, yall hax!!

a snow storm is coming i waited all year for this!!!! poof getting drinks

[Ze_sAiNt]

I can see that you are determined only to be hostile and aggressive and attack me and have no interest in learning the truth...

...I'm happy to spend my time talking to people who are actually interested in truth, but when people are repeatedly shown, for example, Scripture that says that Jesus is God and refuse to acknowledge it and still keep saying the Bible doesn't teach that Jesus is God, it just becomes unprofitable to spend time engaging with a person who will not accept evidence from a source that they claim to acknowledge as an authority.

@BabyShark - you either suffer from amnesia or you have a split personality disorder.  One minute you want to engage in discussion with me and the next, you want to avoid discussion with me.  See how your posts contradict one another:

@Ze_sAiNt

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. This opens the door for some interesting and useful discussion!

You are sharing good, logical questions, and I am happy to delve into them!

If you can convince me you are a truth-seeker, rather than just an attacker who wants to waste my time with frivolous and ridiculous claims that even atheists and unbelievers would or should recognize as being unScriptural, I am happy to spend more time on discussion. But a mean-spirited attacker could make up new wild claims every day that would take an hour to answer, when he is actually not at all interested in learning, but only in tearing down.

What is your goal?

My goal for you is that you come to a knowledge of the truth and to know the love of Jesus Christ who has died for your sins and mine. I want you to be saved because I care.

@Ze_sAiNt

I want to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to engage in useful dialogue with you. It is a rare person who is actually willing to put themselves and their thoughts on the line like you are doing, and I respect you for it.

It's great to see that we are digging into material and able to talk about it, a Muslim and a Christian having a conversation and discussing beliefs and writings from the past.

I am really glad that you are digging into what's in the Bible and thinking about it, and sharing those thoughts. This is what we need more of in the world, is digging into and discussing ideas and thoughts and beliefs openly, rather than simply labelling people (as Adam J. Macleod discusses in his article) and refusing to engage in what the beliefs and views actually are, in order to be able to logically either agree or disagree.

I'm short on time atm, but will get on discussing these further with you!

Again, thank you for being willing to discuss and share and dialogue. I appreciate you for this.

I personally find Ze_Saint to be by far the most willing to engage in actual topics and discuss actual issues, which I greatly respect him for, even though we see things quite differently at this point. I welcome points of view and discussion, from all viewpoints and people. Personal attacks and mislabelling do nothing to promote and increase understanding. I would love to be able to focus on having an actual discussion with Ze_Saint

I can see that you are determined only to be hostile and aggressive and attack me and have no interest in learning the truth.

If you happen to come to terms with yourself and decide to engage further in discussion with me, do let me know.

As far as me having refuted nothing at all of what you said, I believe I have provided ample Scriptural evidence that you are worshipping the wrong God (Jesus).  Jesus himself never claimed to be God.  You have again and again failed to prove that.  If Jesus is meant to be my Lord and Savior and he died for my sins, then I am willing to believe in it if you can prove the following points:

1) Produce any verse where Jesus either says "I am God" or where he says "Worship me".  Do that and I am ready to get baptized today.

2) Produce any verse from the Bible where someone actually calls Jesus "Immanuel" during his lifetime in order to fulfill the prophecy in Matthew 1:23.

3) Who ruled the world for 3 days and 3 nights if Jesus died as a God (ignoring the fact that saying so is blasphemy)?

4) Produce any verse from the Bible where the word "trinity" is mentioned to prove that Jesus is part of a tri-une God.


And if you can't prove these 4 points which I reckon is the bedrock of Christianity, then I'll continue claiming that you are propagating a false religion that doesn't offer salvation to anyone.

Your best, most recent defense is the opinions of some random people who are either ignorant or evil (in order to defend a religion that endorses these evils). That argument is so weak that it simply isn't worth addressing.

So this is what it comes down to:  anyone who doesn't believe that Islam is a religion of hate and evil is considered either IGNORANT or EVIL.  So tell me BabyShark, what motive would those 'random' Christians and non-muslims have in promoting a religion of EVIL???

Taqiyya is the Islamic teaching that Muslims are allowed to lie to non-Muslims in order to make their religion sound less dangerous than it actually is to non-Muslims

And where is the source of this information?  Care to provide some evidence from the Qur'an?

[~ToRa~]

Taqqiyya comes from the a sect of shiaism called "twelver's."
People who practice this aren't considered musims. Just like people who practice Catholicism aren't considered Christians.

The fact Babyshark is unable to make these basic distinctions shows her ignorance. You know I'm fairly certain she wasn't always so religious. I wonder what it was that drove her to become an christian extremist. 

[xXxSmeagolxXx]

Taqqiyya comes from the a sect of shiaism called "twelver's."
People who practice this aren't considered musims. Just like people who practice Catholicism aren't considered Christians.

The fact Babyshark is unable to make these basic distinctions shows her ignorance. You know I'm fairly certain she wasn't always so religious. I wonder what it was that drove her to become an christian extremist. 

I don't know anything about Taqqiyya or twelver's, but Catholics are Christians... Lol. Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists so on, they are all Christians. Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity like all the others.