Infants Welcome

[shesycompany]

ug damn your mind is stronger than mine..u want to keep good people with you..i know we are supposed to love our enemies but like shit im not giving up my shit cause someone batshit, i dont think ripe is..oh god yeah there batshit..i used to listen to my preacher on the radio ..crush all electronics..idk what this fuck was thinking..a cult idk these speakers gets war going

pretty much what jessu has posted is bought right posted well beer and music for me bbl

[LiveFreeorDie]

Back to Ripe, though.

I am not saying that violent talkers should not be banned.

I am only saying that some violent talkers should not be banned while others are not.

I don't see what harm there would be in letting Ripe explain himself and tell his point of view. If he continues with violent speech, re-ban and remove his postings, ezpz.

I think it would be ridiculous to assert that Ripe posting on a W2 forum puts lives anywhere in danger. If someone means to carry out violence (and I certainly don't believe Ripe does, unless his country reaches a breaking point and civil war is unavoidable, in which case defense of his country's women and children is his duty), they can carry it out with or without advertising in some foreign-based video game forum.

And if you really believed Ripe was going to hurt people, you would have and should have told the authorities to put a stop to it. Your hesitation tells me that you don't really believe he meant to hurt anyone, but was rather expressing frustration and fear because of things he has seen happening in his part of the world that pose a threat to liberty, safety, peace, and Western culture and people. Because I want to believe if you believed lives were in danger, you would try to save them.

To say that the people who posted violence against me really don't want to hurt me, or wouldn't if they could, is presumptuous, and an unfair assumption in light of your assumption that Ripe DID mean to hurt people. If you have the power to read minds, I would love a demonstration. I am certainly convinced that they would hurt me in any way they could. But we all have to die sometime. Threats from evil people are not going to stop me from doing what I believe is right.

[shesycompany]

well he is still playing war2..just go to facebook we are so soft asses now?well dam violence against you id have be twisted as fuck for that

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

you are not just not giving me any benefit of the doubt, but assuming the worst possible motives from me. it's very cynical and mean. like not only do you not take me at my word that im generally hands off but found ripes murder plan genuinely disturbing and scary (and accusing me of being ideologically biased), youre also mocking/attacking me for being concerned about people being killed. it's messed up

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

And you categorically refuse to recognize nuance. Every time you repeat the same thing about treating all posts alike I ask you, do you not see how these posts aren't alike? The tenor and tone is completely different. Posting you plan to commit a mass murder is not at all like telling someone to fuck off and die and I feel like you're deliberately refusing to see that. But I've already explained my reasoning to you, with patience and sincerity, at least two other times, and still here you are again making the same least generous interpretations of me and arguing on behalf of a mass murder planner/fantasizer.

[shesycompany]

how dam im the one with infant title cause i wanted to be first ..i read his post but he isnt different that many of any radical groups people like this shit its fun better than space noone wawnts to go to space at all..not really interested..boring

i want this infant title forever #1 well gone back to jam cherrios and besides the spirit world has anyone seen any aspects of it instead of guessing..i can say i have

[LiveFreeorDie]

Actually I did give you the benefit of the doubt. As explained again below.

You said Ripe is going to kill people. You did not contact authorities or warn anyone whose life might be in danger.

Option 1 would be that you're a cold, heartless brute who does not care if people die.

Option 2 is that you don't really believe what you said.

I think Option 2 is giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[LiveFreeorDie]

I have said this 3, 4, or 5 times.

I DO NOT approve of violence against innocents. I am NOT "supporting" Ripe's violent talk. I already said that a ban is fair when people act out of line, and that I support your ban.

BUT.

What I AM getting at is that there should be fair and equal treatment of all users on this forum.

It is not fair and equal treatment to ban some people for violent talk and not ban other people for violent talk.

That you can know the heart and mind of a person making a post is impossible.

Why don't you let Ripe come back and answer for himself what he meant and whether he truly intends to go on a killing spree? Because him posting or not posting in this forum does not change what he will or will not do, so his typing doesn't actually cause any damage (in light of the fact that, as you readily admit, this is a lawless, crap-talking, hostile, hateful atmosphere and everyone is just supposed to accept it to be that way).

I want to clarify that I support you as admin Blid, and I like you, and I like that you are respectful in the way you dialogue with people. Sure, we have different viewpoints on certain issues, but you have always been respectful towards me, even when you disagree. That says a lot about you, and I admire that.

I am going to fight for equal treatment of all users on server and forum, and I am going to fight for free speech, and for truth, and I am going to work towards having the kind of world I want to live in and I want my children to live in, whether it's in big areas in real life or in little areas in a little online community where we all share an enjoyment for a particular video game.

I want to see people treat each other with respect and value each other as human beings. People are starving for love and affection, even raging, flaming gamers. Friendliness and kindness are much more likely to build people up and make things better than the constant tearing down and putting down that people seem to think is cool. Most people who are very angry, rude, and hostile, are just people who may have been mistreated or have not felt loved and appreciated and have seen a lot of pain. They need patience and love and kindness, even if they are not able to return it.

[shesycompany]

u aint gonna catch my butt camping out on top of a indian mound!

[~ToRa~]

@eyyy im walkin here
Look like BS kicked me from the moderated section. I need to my posting rights back. She on my ignore list because she spew nonsense. Why she is even given any rights at all is a mystery to me.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

well i mean tora you did call her retarded, and the whole purpose of the moderated forum is to create a place free from insults and personal attacks, so being sent to the pen seems fair. on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out. i saw lightbringer, who is muslim, popped in and was like "what the hell is all this, and this person is a moderator?!" a sentiment i find very sympathetic. but that seems to be the way of it right now. also, babyshark's pov itself comes from an extremely cultural and religious place, where islam being evil is basically an article of faith, so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even... there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads

[~ToRa~]

I genuinely don't care about being banned from the moderated section. Its essentially BS's playpen. I don't even read her posts.
Just remove "infants" from my name and I'll drop this issue. And FYI I was adressing LB not BS and he did cut into her. Only reason he not banned is cause he a global mod on the forum.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

ok i think i can

[mousEtopher]

on another level however i am with you, in that i don't really like the idea that one can make sweeping and ignorant and offensive claims about an entire religion as long as they act poised and respectable while doing it... and then people who lash out at that person get punished for lashing out.

why does it have to be an act? coherently organizing & presenting a stance requires critical thinking, understanding & presenting evidence, etc etc. it's also a great way to expose any flaws & misconceptions in one's reasoning, and it can't happen if someone is instantly heckled into silence every time they open their mouth. being wrong is not a crime & should not be stigmatized on any level.

so she earnestly believes her arguments are both right and important, urgent even...

as you say, there's no malicious intent here.

there is really no point in diving into those sorts of arguments imo with someone so devoted to their cause.  nothing will change, nothing will be learned, i am just ignoring those threads

sanctimoniously writing someone off altogether and/or telling them to kill themselves have even lower success rates in fact. those sentiments commit the exact same mistake as so-called ignorant & offensive claim-makers in that they subjectively write off & counterpose themselves to x group of people based on y parameter. "oh, you don't think exactly what i do at this exact moment, regardless of your upbringing or education or social context? you must be an ignorant mouthbreathing retard, there's no helping you, do everyone a favor and go kill yourself!" this attitude to me is far worse than just being ignorant/wrong, as it implies enough knowledge to see the shortcomings in someone's reasoning but a complete unwillingness to make any effort to correct them. (or else is itself based on incompletely understood reasoning & thus incapable of producing coherent retorts..) it echoes every other form of bigotry ever in essentially saying "we don't like you, you aren't worth cooperating with on any level, get away from us". such behavior is just inarguably a sad & hypocritical sham for anyone or anything purporting to be leftist & progressive. (not specifically directed towards you blid, i think you succeed in being very patient & measured quite consistently)

anyway @BabyShark as far as fair & equal treatment across the board, any forum on the internet is going to have a caveat in their rules that leaves ultimate determinations up to the moderators and their individual common sense/discretion. no one "knows" for sure how serious ripe is about his ill intent, but we do know that it came across as disturbing enough that we don't want the guy here. i think in general it's best not to get too caught up in the minutia of war2 & its moderation practices as it really does represent a very small part of our overall lives. we do our best here, but at the same time nothing will ever be "perfect"!

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

as far as the "respectability" debate goes, you make good points and that was a thoughtful post, but in my view, certain ideas, no matter how politely expressed, are violent or hateful.  i think in the case of a dispassionate, careful argument about why jews are the untermensch, for instance, a respectful response only legitimizes an ugly and inherently violent point of view.  if someone replied to that person with "kill yourself, anti-semite retard," i think that's a valid expression of the type of strident disdain that such an argument deserves, and banning the respondent for being crude and offensive, while letting the nazi carry on, is actually its own type of bias toward civility over any sort of righteousness or fairer world. 

that's why i like the rules post in forum affairs that ropes off religious, racial, and sexual intolerance and precludes those issues from being "up for debate."  i dont think that takes too much discussion off the table and i think it works well.  when, in general forum, babyshark violates that rule, and then other people violate the rules in turn with insults and death wishes, i've treated everyone equally by simply trashing the thread into the flame forum altogether instead of singling anyone out.  i don't personally think it's good to tell lightbringer, tora, and other muslim people that they just need to deal with someone posting a steady stream of anti-muslim hate propaganda. 

i do realize that babyshark actually does think that the very concept of islam is dangerous and feels that being silenced on that issue is pc censorship.  i believe if she wants to have those discussions, we offer a place for that type of argument: the flame forum, where claw has had many long debates justifying racism.  i believe a safe, moderated space for babyshark to post about other topics is a good thing, but i dont believe islamophobic arguments belong there.

you have a different view on debate and you explained your philosophy pretty well above, and i respect that.  if you prefer to give bs a safe place to espouse her anti-islam views free from abusive repercussions, that's okay!  i will not be responding to it, however, in part because i don't wish to give such views any oxygen, but also because i believe it would be a waste of breath.  i actually think it's more sanctimonious & arrogant to think i could persuade someone into uprooting their entire belief structure than it is to recognize that we're at an impasse.  in many cases up-ending that person's belief structure would literally mean destroying that person's identity.  it's just not gonna happen.  thank you