Testimonies from Ex-Muslims

[LiveFreeorDie]

There is ample evidence Scripturally and historically for the following:

1. Jesus did many miracles during His ministry on earth

2. Jesus was crucified and died.

3. Jesus rose from the dead.

It's plastered all over the entire Bible. His disciples witnessed His death and resurrection. They were killed for telling the truth. No one would die for something they know is false. It is not Scripturally or historically refutable that Jesus died and rose from the dead.

It is because of the hardness of sinful hearts that the truth is rejected.

Everything in Scripture needs to be understood in the light of other Scripture.

In the story of Jonah, God sends Jonah to preach against Nineveh because it was a very wicked city.

Jonah does not want to, and gets on a boat to run away from God. God wants to give His love and mercy to sinful people, but Jonah actually wants the Ninevites to be destroyed, and perhaps fears what they may do to him if he confronts them.

No one can hide from God, of course, and Jonah's escape journey is interrupted by a raging storm. Jonah admits to the others on board that this is his fault, and asks to be thrown overboard. They comply. God sends a large water creature to swallow Jonah, where he stays for 3 days and 3 nights, and prays to God, who commands the great beast to vomit him out onto dry land.

God again commands Jonah to go preach to Nineveh. The Ninevites actually believe God and repent of their evil ways. A fast is declared (everyone refrained from eating and drinking) and put on sackcloth to humble themselves before God.

When Jonah saw that God was showing mercy to these wicked people, Jonah became very angry. Jonah says this is why he ran away, because he did not want these evil people to have God's mercy, but rather to be destroyed by God's just wrath for their wickedness.

There is much foreshadowing in the Bible, pointing to Jesus.

Jonah is one of many examples.

There are almost too many to list.

Abraham being asked to kill his son Isaac to show that he loves God more than his beloved son, and passing the test of ultimate love. This is a picture of God sacrificing His beloved Son Jesus Christ for all of us. Abraham's son is spared as he holds up the knife to slay his son.

A picture is a picture that points and foreshadows, but is not exact in all aspects.

The Bible must be looked at as a whole that all fits together. Everything in Scripture is centred on Christ sacrificed for our sin and raised back to life.

Pictures to demonstrate points are very common in Scripture:

John 15:5-8

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Someone who is being just silly could say, oh see, Jesus said he was a plant. He is delusional and the Bible has a mistake in it! That's just being facetious.

It is obviously a picture to illustrate a truth, in this case, that our life comes from Christ, and without Him, we wither and die spiritually. All who are not rooted in Christ are spiritually dead and condemned by their own wickedness to spend eternity in hell, because they reject the grace and truth and salvation of God in Jesus Christ. Now is the time to repent. Now is the time to turn to the Lord on our knees and humble ourselves before a righteous and holy judge who now shows mercy through Jesus Christ. We do not even know when the time of grace will run out. All of us will one day take our last breath if Jesus does not first return in His glory to judge the world.

2 Corinthians 5:10

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

John 12:47-48

 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

That passage in John 12 says that the word of Christ found in Scripture, when men reject it, will be the very words that judge them. So these words you are reading right now quoted from Scripture, the words of Jesus Christ, if you choose to reject them and Him, if you reject His love and grace and mercy with which He SAVED THE WORLD, these words that you rejected and refused to believe will be the words that judge you in the end, either when Jesus comes back to judge the world, or when you die and face judgement.

Acts 10:34-43

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they[e] killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Romans 14:10b-12

For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Matthew 10:14

14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

Matthew 12:36-37

36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

The passage you quoted comes right after these verses about the day of judgment.

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Jesus said the men of Nineveh, whose barbaric and bloody, wicked ways were feared by surrounding nations, repented, and would judge and condemn the generation of unbelieving scribes and Pharisees.

The scribes and Pharisees were supposed to be the religious leaders and teachers, and they did not even believe in the Son of God that God had prophecied from old who came to fulfill the prophecies and save the world of its sins. They were trusting in their own good works and zealous following of laws and their blood relation to Abraham to save them. This is why Jesus said of them:

Matthew 5:20

 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 12:38-40

38 Then He said to them in His teaching, “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, 39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 40 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”

The reason they would receive greater condemnation is because they were the leaders, who had been given Scripture to study and learn, who had all the opportunity to believe the words of Christ, but rejected Him.

Matthew 23 is devoted to Jesus crying woe to the scribes and Pharisees for their unbelief and rejection of Christ. Their works and attempts to follow the law were to look good for people, not out of love for God and neighbour.

Matthew 23:27-28

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

They who were supposed to be the leaders and guides to point people to God, were lost in unbelief. They did not believe in Jesus, and being jealous of His influence, wanted to get rid of him, trying to catch Him saying something that they could get Him arrested for.

Luke 20:20-26

20 So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.

21 Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth: 22 Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Why do you test Me? 24 Show Me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?”

They answered and said, “Caesar’s.”

25 And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

26 But they could not catch Him in His words in the presence of the people. And they marveled at His answer and kept silent.

John 12:37-43

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

40
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
Walk in the Light

42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

They loves the praise of men more than the praise of God.

That describes us today as well. When we care more about what other people think than what God thinks, we are being short-sighted fools, in light of the fact that God is the one who is going to judge the world and all of our thoughts, words, and actions.

We are so full of sin of every kind and are completely unable to save ourselves by our own efforts.

ONLY JESUS can save us.

After healing a lame man, Peter and John were arrested and questioned.

Acts 4:5-22

5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that their rulers, elders, and scribes, 6 as well as Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the family of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem. 7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, “By what power or by what name have you done this?”

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus. 14 And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it. 15 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, 16 saying, “What shall we do to these men? For, indeed, that a notable miracle has been done through them is evident to all who dwell in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17 But so that it spreads no further among the people, let us severely threaten them, that from now on they speak to no man in this name.”

18 So they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.” 21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way of punishing them, because of the people, since they all glorified God for what had been done. 22 For the man was over forty years old on whom this miracle of healing had been performed.

The name of Jesus was used by his disciples to heal the lame.

The name of Jesus is the ONLY NAME BY WHICH WE CAN BE SAVED.

The name of Jesus is hated by Satan and people who belong to Satan.

Jesus' followers and God's true prophets have been persecuted throughout the Bible by people who want to remain comfortable in their sins and unbelief.

God's Word is truth!

Jesus has given us salvation and righteousness.

It is ONLY the righteousness of Jesus Christ who lived a holy and sinless life that is good enough to get into heaven with.

The righteousness of Jesus Christ is the righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees and scribes.

2 Corinthians 5:20-21

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

GOD IS PLEADING THROUGH HIS PEOPLE AND HIS WORD

BE RECONCILED TO GOD

GOD LOVES YOU

GOD WANTS YOU

Jesus Christ who had NO SIN was made sin for us, that is, our sins were placed on HIM, so the wrath of God that should have fallen on US, was placed on HIM, and the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SINLESS SON OF GOD IS MADE OURS!!

That is how our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees! Not by our works! By the righteousness of JESUS CHRIST which we claim as our own through faith in Him!

1 Corinthians 1:30-31

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Phillippians 3:8-9

8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

I thank you for sharing your thoughts and I pray that you will come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and His great love and mercy for you!


[/i]

[Ze_sAiNt]

@BabyShark

I have to applaud you.  You have beautifully avoided addressing my points, whilst at the same time, you have quoted numerous biblical verses that are irrelevant to the discussion and also brought back points which I have already proven to be unconvincing.

Let's have a look at what you wrote:

There is ample evidence Scripturally and historically for the following:

1. Jesus did many miracles during His ministry on earth

Agreed, but does that prove in any way that Jesus is God?  No - and I've proven to you from the Bible itself that others also performed miracles.  Does that make them gods too?

2. Jesus was crucified and died.

Again, another vain argument as I showed you clearly from the Bible that Jesus said to the jews that he will be LIKE Jonah (i.e ALIVE and not dead) for 3 days and 3 nights - you have expounded to great lengths on how this likeness was in comparison to the people of Nineveh but that's not what this verse is all about.  Jesus only referred to the MIRACLE of Jonah, starting from when he was thrown overboard in a raging sea (where he ought to die and didn't), then was swallowed by the whale (and still didn't die when he ought to) and then again inside the belly of the whale where he prayed to God (where we would expect anyone to die out of the heat and suffocation and Jonah still didn't)... This was a miracle three times over and the man was still ALIVE!!! And Jesus tells you he is like Jonah for 3 days and 3 nights.  I don't know if you understand English the same way I understand it.  It doesn't get any simpler than this.

3. Jesus rose from the dead.

It's plastered all over the entire Bible. His disciples witnessed His death and resurrection.

I'm sorry to say this but you don't know your own Bible.  None of Jesus's disciples were present to witness his "death and resurrection".  And I will give you yet another proof that Jesus did not die that abominable death on the cross and hence did not rise from the dead:

You see, when Jesus goes back to that upper room (where he had that last supper) after his alleged crucifixion, he goes in and he wishes his disciples in the Hebrew language "Shalom Aleichem", which is the same as the Islamic greeting "Salam Alaikum" which means "Peace be unto you" [Luke 24:36].

Instead of his disciples embracing and kissing him (as was the Jewish tradition in those days), they were terrified.  So why were they terrified?  Luke says: "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit." [Luke 24:37].

Why would they suppose Jesus was a spirit when he didn't look like a spirit?  The answer is that the disciples of Jesus had heard from hearsay that the master was hanged on the cross; they had heard from hearsay that he had given up the ghost (i.e he had died); they had heard from hearsay that now he is dead and buried for three days.  All their knowledge was from hearsay because they were not eye witnesses to the happening because Mark tell us that at the most critical junction in the life of Jesus, all his disciples forsook him and fled.

"Then all his disciples deserted him and ran away." [Mark 14:50]

So, does ALL mean ALL to you?  It sure does.  On hearsay knowledge, if you heard about a man who's dead and buried for three days, you expect him to be stinking in his grave... and when you see such a person in front of you, naturally you'll be terrified.  But Jesus wants to assure them that he's not what they're thinking, so he says:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." [Luke 24:39]

It is an axiomatic truth that spirits have no flesh and bones, so why is Jesus going out of his way to prove to his disciples that he is NOT a spirit?  That's because they are thinking that he is one.  To assure them further that they were wrong in their thinking, Jesus tells them:

"And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
And he took it, and did eat before them." [Luke 24:41-43]

Jesus ate in front of his disciples to prove to them that he is ALIVE and not "dead and resurrected".  I honestly can't understand how you can read those verses in your own mother tongue and understand the exact opposite of what you're reading!

John 12:47-48

 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

That passage in John 12 says that the word of Christ found in Scripture, when men reject it, will be the very words that judge them. So these words you are reading right now quoted from Scripture, the words of Jesus Christ, if you choose to reject them and Him, if you reject His love and grace and mercy with which He SAVED THE WORLD, these words that you rejected and refused to believe will be the words that judge you in the end, either when Jesus comes back to judge the world, or when you die and face judgement.

You claim to follow the words of Jesus Christ but in reality, you are only following Paul.  Let's have a look at which of Jesus's or Paul's teachings you follow:

1. Adhering to the laws and commandments

Jesus tells you to keep the laws and the commandments [Matthew 5:17-20]

Paul says that the Law will not bring any justification but a man will only be justified by faith in Christ Jesus. [Galatians 2:16]

You follow Paul.

2. How to attain salvation

Jesus links salvation to the keeping of the commandments. [Matthew 19:16-17]

According to Paul, just professing that Jesus is Lord and that he was raised from the dead will result in the person being saved [Romans 10:9]

You follow Paul.

Paul initiated the whole doctrine of atonement based on the concept of 'original sin' (ROMANS 5:12, 1 CORINTHIANS 15:21-22). Such a concept which states that every human being is born stained with the sin of Adam and Eve, is against the Justice of God.  Major Yeats Brown in his book Life of a Bengal Dancer comments on this absurd concept:

"No heathen tribe has conceived so grotesque an idea, involving as it does the assumption, that man was born with a hereditary stain upon him; and that this stain (for which he is not personably responsible) was to be atoned for; and that the Creator of all things had to sacrifice his only begotten son to neutralize this mysterious curse."

3. Eating the flesh of the swine

Jesus never ate the pig as he followed the Law, which states: "The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses." [Deuteronomy 14:8].

Paul allows everything to be eaten, regardless of what the Law says. [Corinthians 10:25]

You follow Paul.

4. Circumcision

Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day. [Luke 2:21]. And Jesus says, "he is not of me who does not take up his cross and follow me" as I quoted before.

Paul says circumcision is nothing and non-circumcision is nothing. [Corinthians 7:19]

What is good for your "Lord" should be good for you, but the bulk of Christians would rather follow Paul in not circumcising.

You follow Paul.



So, I'm confused.  Which words of Jesus are YOU following?  Can't you see, you're following Paul all the way.

We are so full of sin of every kind and are completely unable to save ourselves by our own efforts.

ONLY JESUS can save us.

It seems to me that you are reading the Bible with blinkers on and you want me and the rest of the world to read the Bible in the same way.  But looking at the verses of the Bible in an objective way, you will find that everyone is responsible for his own deeds, good or bad, and everyone has an opportunity to repent to God Almighty (not Jesus) in order to be saved.  Look into the book of Ezekiel Chapter 18 and you will find those verses, which are truly Islamic:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. [Ezekiel 18:20]

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die." [Ezekiel 18:21]

Our father Adam sinned by eating the forbidden fruit; we, his children, are not responsible for what he did.  And whatever his children today are doing today, God will not question Adam for that and hold him accountable.  Whatever good someone does, he will get his reward for it and whatever evil someone does, he will get his punishment for it.

So, how do you get salvation?  The answer is in verse 21 - if the evildoer repents from his sins and do that which is good, he shall live (spiritually that is) forever.

Matthew 5:20

 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus has given us salvation and righteousness.

It is ONLY the righteousness of Jesus Christ who lived a holy and sinless life that is good enough to get into heaven with.

The righteousness of Jesus Christ is the righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees and scribes.

You are clearly quoting those verses out of context.  Here is the context.  Matthew Chapter 5 begins with Jesus addressing his disciples and teaching them.  Jesus is telling them THEY can only enter heaven if THEIR righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees, NOT BY BELIEVING IN HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!  Otherwise, he would have said: "Unless you believe that MY righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees..."


Therefore, to sum up, you are a strict follower of Paul, who has never met Jesus in his lifetime, self-proclaimed himself the 13th disciple of Jesus, invented a whole new religion that wasn't preached or taught by Jesus, and initiated the whole doctrine of atonement based on the concept of 'original sin' based on which he made you believe that Jesus died for your sins and the Law is now nailed to the cross.

In contrast to that, Jesus told you to keep the laws and commandments if you want to enter Heaven; he told you to take up the cross and to follow him in order to attain salvation.  If you insist on calling yourself a true Christian, my advice to you is to start following the teachings of Jesus, not those of Paul.


On a separate note, you have yet to respond (with proof from the Bible) to the points I have raised earlier:

1) Produce any verse where Jesus either says "I am God" or where he says "Worship me".

2) Produce any verse from the Bible where someone actually calls Jesus "Immanuel" during his lifetime in order to fulfill the prophecy in Matthew 1:23.

3) Who ruled the world for 3 days and 3 nights if Jesus died as a God (ignoring the fact that saying so is blasphemy)?

4) Produce any verse from the Bible where the word "trinity" is mentioned.

[Warchief Lightbringer-]

I'm just logging in after a very long time and have absolutely no clue who the **** is that BabyShark dude. As a moderator, her posts are totally out of place.
Probably one of the many jobless/parent basement dweller/<insert favourite drug here>abuser/living off government pity money/unemployed loser and blah blah blah.....

edit: This space is not the place for posts about muslims leaving islam or vice-versa.

[~ToRa~]

@Warchief Lightbringer- Babyshark is easily one of the most out of touch mentally unbalanced people I have ever come across. There is no point in having a discussion with her about anything. The girl is retarded and for that reason she been on my ignore list for the past month.

Really amazes me the mods have essentially given someone like BS her own personal playground on the forum.

[LiveFreeorDie]

@Warchief Lightbringer- Babyshark is easily one of the most out of touch mentally unbalanced people I have ever come across. There is no point in having a discussion with her about anything. The girl is retarded and for that reason she been on my ignore list for the past month.

Really amazes me the mods have essentially given someone like BS her own personal playground on the forum.

Provide evidence of your claims in the realm of reason.

This is yet another ungrounded personal attack because of my religious beliefs. From an admin no less. Tora resigned because he couldn't get along with the admin team. But then unresigned.

Going around insulting people's breasts and spewing nasty personal attacks is completely inappropriate behavior for anyone, but totally unacceptable in an admin. Your move to resign was the correct one, and you could be replaced by absolutely anyone, and justice, fairness, goodness would all immediately increase.

You are the one who is unable to defend your point of view with logical points, and find your worldview hollow and crumbling beneath your feet, and this disturbs you.

[Warchief Lightbringer-]

There is no reason whatsoever for me to post anything pro islam or against other religions. As a modetator, someone should try to have a neutral standpoint and avoid touchy and potentially explosive posts.

My only difference in 'views' is stating you need to grow a fucking carapace and know what to and what not to post.
As for my "wild, slanderous claims?"....
You come tell me what you are worth. I bet pretty much nothing.

[LiveFreeorDie]

There is no reason whatsoever for me to post anything pro islam or against other religions.

If one's religions offers hope, peace, life, comfort, and help to a troubled and broken world filled with suffering and pain and death, of course one would want to share it with the world!

My religion does offer hope and peace and life and comfort and help to a dying world. Jesus Christ died for all of us, to save us from our sins. He gives eternal life to all who believe this. We may be saved from our sins by believing in the blessed name of Jesus Christ our Savior. We can have this comfort even when we are suffering or dying, like so many people are. We have a reason to love other people, because God created them and God loves them! I want to help and serve other people because God has first loved me, and instructs us to love and help and serve others.

I think those are good things that are worth sharing.

If your religion does not offer hope, peace, help, comfort, then maybe it's not worth believing? If your religion does, then isn't it your duty to share it with everyone, if you really believe it??

[LiveFreeorDie]

As a modetator, someone should try to have a neutral standpoint and avoid touchy and potentially explosive posts.

There is no such thing as a neutral position.

If there are 10 people with 10 different viewpoints, and only those who are apathetic enough to have no particular opinion are allowed to talk, there won't be much of a conversation.

Even the claim that "only neutral views are welcome" is a completely non-neutral statement.

It silences discussion on ideas and topics that are relevant to humanity, belief, life, death, the history of the world, the future, and the way humans treat other humans.

If this statement were neutral, it could not be reasonably opposed.

I do oppose it.

I believe in free speech and the right to discuss thoughts and opinions openly in a respectful way.

These are "Western values", and I and most other North Americans dearly value freedom and liberty and peace and safety and respect towards all people.

A neutral view is one that can't really be argued against, so it's basically a non-opinion or an absence of opinion, which is basically either ignorance or apathy.

So only ignorant (people who don't know about a topic) or apathetic people are allowed to speak.

Apathetic people won't care one way or another, and ignorant people just don't know, even if they would care if they knew.

There is no such thing as a neutral view.

Also, there are all kinds of views that have been discussed for a long time in politics (communism, liberalism, etc.), so non-neutral views are welcome it seems, as long as they are not Christian views.

It is only the Christian voice that people seek to silence.

I do not seek to silence any type of views, only abusive, insulting, non-beneficial speech that is only intended as harassment or discrimination to tear a person down.

[LiveFreeorDie]

avoid touchy and potentially explosive posts.

I'm just logging in after a very long time and have absolutely no clue who the **** is that BabyShark dude. As a moderator, her posts are totally out of place.
Probably one of the many jobless/parent basement dweller/<insert favourite drug here>abuser/living off government pity money/unemployed loser and blah blah blah.....

edit: This space is not the place for posts about muslims leaving islam or vice-versa.

Your first post that you entered with is a touchy and explosive post that flings unfounded insults at myself, for no reason other than I share a different viewpoint than you have.

I do not hate any person or race or gender, but I do hate oppression and violence and injustice and cruelty, and if I believe that a certain ideology or belief system supports those things, then how could I do any other thing besides stand against it?

If you read the many passages from the Quran that instruct Muslims to kill Jews, Christians, fake Muslims "hypocrites" (who are unwilling to be violent against non-Muslims), how can you say that Muslims who follow these orders are misunderstanding their religion? Is that what you are suggesting? That Muslims who carry out the Quran's instructions to dominate and kill others are confused and don't understand their religion? Or do you concede that the Quran teaches violence against non-Muslims, as can be read by any person who is literate and can read a translation of the Quran?

To silence open discussion on reality in the world, to silence free speech, is exactly what Muslims want. They do not want the Quran to be read by critical thinkers because it can not stand up to scrutiny and reason.

The label "islamophobe" is just an empty label. Those who scream "islamophobe" and "stone and behead the Christians!" are just giving further evidence that open, peaceful discussion is not on their agenda, and that silencing any opposers is.

I think any group that wants to silence all other views is a group to be concerned about.

You come tell me what you are worth. I bet pretty much nothing.

Here you again call me "worthless".

Is this discrimination based on my being a female? Or my being a Christian? Or because I have an "unclean" dog in my home? In what way am I worthless, according to your religion or your personal views, whichever it is that directs your mind?

Do you think going around calling people "worthless" is loving or constructive? Is that the kind of person who should be in charge of anything? Who does not even care about human lives?

I do care about human lives, and it's because I care about people here that I want the message of the love of Jesus Christ to come to all people, so they may be saved and know Him too.

God is a God of love and mercy and without Jesus, we are condemned in our sins. Jesus has paid the penalty for our sins on the cross and takes our sins away, both yours and mine and those of every person.

If I didn't care about people, I would just leave the forums, because it really isn't fun anymore. There are so many people who just want to tear me down, and everyone has heard the message of Jesus, so the Gospel has been shared, so people can believe God's truth or reject it, so that when Judgement Day comes, no one will have an excuse before God for rejecting or not believing Jesus and being stuck with their own sins that will condemn them to hell for eternity.

[Ze_sAiNt]

@BabyShark

I found it strange how so many people on this forum, discord and in the game itself hate you so much (easycompany, Tora and lightbringer to name a few) and I was inclined towards giving you the benefit of the doubt.  But now I can see clearly that you are sick and you need help.

Stop being a hypocrite by making others believe you are keen in engaging in intellectual discussions when you clearly do not want to reply to my posts and you are claiming in your private message to me that I am attacking you and your Bible.  I won't post the details of our private conversation here but everyone can judge here how you are using double standards: you say Islam is a religion of hate and oppression...

I know Islam is a man-made concoction of hate and oppression

...but you do not construe that as an attack on Islam.  However, when I quote you biblical verses where it says God killed 50,070 men for looking into an Ark, expecting you to reasonably explain to everyone how this is the act of a "God of Love" as you claim, you jump the gun and say I am attacking you and the Bible.

So, let's try to reason.

If you read the many passages from the Quran that instruct Muslims to kill Jews, Christians, fake Muslims "hypocrites" (who are unwilling to be violent against non-Muslims), how can you say that Muslims who follow these orders are misunderstanding their religion? Is that what you are suggesting? That Muslims who carry out the Quran's instructions to dominate and kill others are confused and don't understand their religion? Or do you concede that the Quran teaches violence against non-Muslims, as can be read by any person who is literate and can read a translation of the Quran?

You have a sickness of quoting verses out of context, be it in the Bible or the Koran.  If by quoting the above verses from the Koran, you are trying to make people believe that Islam promotes violence, then what have you to say when Jesus says in the Bible:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

It is obvious to anyone reading this verse that Jesus is preaching violence... and for what?  For not accepting him as their ruler.  Explain that to others... or would you rather avoid the topic altogether like you've done before and keep on saying "Jesus died for our sins".

If one's religions offers hope, peace, life, comfort, and help to a troubled and broken world filled with suffering and pain and death, of course one would want to share it with the world!

My religion does offer hope and peace and life and comfort and help to a dying world.

Tell me, how is your religion (Christianity) offering solutions to the problems of the world today?  We have problems of alcoholism, gambling, homosexuality, etc. What solutions does your Bible offer?

Jesus said in the Bible:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me..." [John 16:12-14]

Who is this "he, the Spirit of Truth" that Jesus is referring to?  Any Christian, including YOU, will tell you it is the Holy Spirit.  Fine.  So tell me now, what guidance did the Holy Spirit bring you in the past 2,000 years that Jesus did not already tell you in so many words in the Bible?  How is the Holy Spirit guiding humanity in solving the problems I mentioned above?  YOU HAVEN'T GOT AN ANSWER TO THIS.

I am telling you now that this Spirit of Truth is Muhammad and I'll prove it to you.  Let's see what solution Muhammad has brought to mankind after Jesus left this world:

Alcoholism and Gambling

"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper." [Qur'an 5:90]

When this verse was revealed, barrels of wine were emptied in the city of Madina never to be refilled again.  What did it?  One verse from the Qur'an.  And today, muslims as a whole don't imbibe in alcohol.  Muslims also have the lowest rate of gambling in the world.  I'm not saying that no muslim gambles... we all have our black sheep in our societies but as a whole, I can say muslims don't gamble.

Homosexuality

"We also sent Lut. He said to his people: 'Will you commit lewdness such as no people in creation ever committed before you? For you come in lust to men in preference to women. No, you are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds' (Qur'an 7:80-81).

In another verse, Lut advised them: 'Of all the creatures in the world, will you approach males, and leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? No, you are a people transgressing (all limits)!' (Qur'an 26:165-166).

Many western countries, including your own, have legalized homosexuality and gay marriages.  Need I say more?

Surplus women

We have a problem of surplus women in many western countries today.  Statistics tell us there are millions of women more than men in America alone.  If every man were to get married in America, there'll still be millions of women who will be left without a husband.  Add to that your gay population.  That's another few million women who can't get husbands.  Then, there's your prison population that is > 95% men.  Your problem is compounding... Islam offers you a solution:

"Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one..." [Qur'an 4:3]

There is a type of woman who does not mind sharing a husband and there is a type of man who does not mind taking on additional responsibility.  Islam offers you this as a solution.  It might not go easily down your throat but ask any woman who can't get a husband if she would mind sharing one with another woman... You don't mind having dozens of illegitimate partners but when it comes to polygamy, you say "over my dead body!".  Then, you will simmer in your soup and your problems will keep on compounding.

To silence open discussion on reality in the world, to silence free speech, is exactly what Muslims want. They do not want the Quran to be read by critical thinkers because it can not stand up to scrutiny and reason.

You can't be further away from the truth.  Muslims welcome people to come and read the Qur'an and analyze it critically and discuss it.  The Qur'an says:

"Say: "O People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)." [Qur'an 3:64]

The Qur'an tells us to come to a common platform with the Jews and Christians to discuss matters of faith, which is exactly what I have been trying to do.   I invite you to read the Qur'an with an open heart and critically analyze it, and not just quote verses out of context...

[Warchief Lightbringer-]

Looked like that lil B got GGED!

[Ze_sAiNt]

I have a little bit of time now, and it seems prudent to start with the most urgent and pressing concern you have raised, namely, my health, to ensure that everyone is safe:

I can see clearly that you are sick and you need help.

Can you describe the symptoms of illness that you see, and recommend which kind of doctor I may visit who may accurately diagnose me and provide remedy?

I do concede that I have had a cold lately, with a sore throat and a cough. Is that what you're referring to? If it is, I can assure you that this sickness is not life-threatening, and cannot be passed along over the internet.

You are just pathetic.  You've had several hours to respond to my posts, yet all you could come up with was 'my health'!?  And yet, you still managed to initiate several new threads as a decoy instead of addressing the real problem which you got yourself into and which don't want to deal with...

But since you mentioned it, you should know that the type of sickness you have is spiritual, not physical.  You suffer from Islamophobia and everyone can see how you hallucinate that muslims are always trying to attack you or your religion.  You convince yourself to believe that Islam is a religion of hate and oppression and use every opportunity you have to launch attacks on Islam.  You keep on watching and posting videos of David Wood - who spreads lies about Muhammad and Islam with the most sarcastic smile on his face - and you have now become programmed to believe everything the guy says.  Jesus Christ warned you against those types of people when he said:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." [Matthew 7:15]

Incidentally, in the same chapter, Jesus also warns you about judging others - in as much as you said the Qur'an teaches violence, not seeing that the Bible itself contains numerous verses teaching violence - so, Jesus Christ is telling you:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

"How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." [Matthew 7:1-5]


Isn't it about time you overcome your irrational fears, get out of your coccoon and start thinking for yourself?

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

You have beautifully avoided addressing my points

This seems to be her trademark, avoiding addressing anything she can argue against and rambling incoherently into another topic.

[LiveFreeorDie]

Looked like that lil B got GGED!

Nonsense. The problem here is that ze_saint stands on very, very flimsy platforms and might as well be saying "the sun is not warm" or "books don't contain words" or "grass is not green".

When evidence presented is completely ignored and the same thing is repeated over and over again in spite of evidence shown, it needs to be considered whether ANY evidence of any kind can ever persuade such a person.

Ze_Saint's position is that the Bible does not teach that Jesus is God.

I already showed ample evidence that the Bible does in fact teach that Jesus is God, which he dismissed and ignored and refused to acknowledge.

Even atheists and Bible-haters who want nothing to do with Jesus recognize that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God.

I'll re-post the verses here.

John 5:18

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23

 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Jesus uses the same words that God Himself used from the burning bush with Moses to describe Himself, saying that "before Abraham was, I AM." The Jews were so angry that He was calling Himself God that they picked up stones to stone Him to death, but Jesus just supernaturally walked right through them.

Exodus 3:14

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

John 8:48-59

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

So it is clear that Jesus made Himself out to be God.

There are 3 possiblities.

1. Jesus is lying.
2. Jesus is insane.
3. Jesus is telling the truth.

The possibility that Jesus is a good man or a good human prophet does not exist, because good men and good prophets don't go around lying to people and telling everyone they are God.

So we see the evidence:

Jesus had supernatural power to do miracles.

The supernatural power did not come from Satan, but came from God.

Jesus called himself God.

Jesus is God.

So then you bring up some good questions:


Quote from: Ze_sAiNt on November 16, 2017, 04:54:58 AM

    Where does Jesus say in the Bible that He is God?  Prove it to me.  Quote me an unequivocal statement from the Bible where Jesus either says "I am God" or where he says "Worship me".  Do that, and I am ready to accept him as my God.  In fact, Jesus never made such a claim.  To make your task easy, find a red letter bible where every word Jesus ever spoke is in red.

    On the contrary, Jesus said again and again:

    "The Father is greater than I." [John 14:28]

    "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all..." [John 10:29]

    "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [John 5:30] - incidentally, anyone who submits his will to the Almighty God is a muslim by definition.  Jesus Christ was a muslim.

    But why go that far to prove that Jesus is not God?  The answer to that is in the Lord's Prayer.  Here is the quote, with a little emphasis on the pronouns:

    "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [Luke 11:9-10]

    Where does Jesus say he is God?  On the plain sight of it, you can make out that Jesus is actually praying to God...



These are great questions, because how does it make sense for God to pray...to Himself? Why is Jesus saying "The Father is greater than I?"

The answer lies in the dual nature of Christ.

Jesus Christ was fully God, AND fully man.

He was born of a virgin, human woman by the Holy Spirit, so He did not inherit sinfulness like all the rest of us do from our parents. Isaiah prophesied about His birth 700 years earlier. Immanuel means "God with us" and describes Jesus as being God in the flesh, here with us.

Matthew 1:18-23

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Philippians 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus was in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God. He MADE Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. He humbled Himself and became obedient. At the name of Jesus, every knee should BOW...every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.

Jesus took on humanity, and in His humanity, was lower than God. He did not lose His God-ness, but He took on humanity. Why??

So He could keep the law perfectly (where we cannot) so that He could become the sacrifice for our sins, and die. He needed to be human so he could take our place of punishment. He needed to be under the law as a human, so He could obey it perfectly, never sinning, and He needed to be human so He could die. The wrath of God was put on Him over our sin.

Hebrews 2:5-9

5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. 6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:

“What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7
You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
And set him over the works of Your hands.
8
You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

So we see that in His humanity, Jesus was a "little lower than the angels" and that the reason for Him taking on humanity was so that He might taste death for everyone.

God can't be killed. But God taking on humanity, can die in His humanity, on our behalf.

Jesus ate, drank, slept, cried like other humans. It is in His humanity that He was made lower, and in His humanity that He has humbled Himself. Yet He remains God at the same time and every knee will bow at the name of Jesus in the end.

I'll post this for now, and then continue on your other points.

[LiveFreeorDie]

I have a little bit of time now, and it seems prudent to start with the most urgent and pressing concern you have raised, namely, my health, to ensure that everyone is safe:

I can see clearly that you are sick and you need help.

Can you describe the symptoms of illness that you see, and recommend which kind of doctor I may visit who may accurately diagnose me and provide remedy?

I do concede that I have had a cold lately, with a sore throat and a cough. Is that what you're referring to? If it is, I can assure you that this sickness is not life-threatening, and cannot be passed along over the internet.

You are just pathetic.  You've had several hours to respond to my posts, yet all you could come up with was 'my health'!?  And yet, you still managed to initiate several new threads as a decoy instead of addressing the real problem which you got yourself into and which don't want to deal with...

But since you mentioned it, you should know that the type of sickness you have is spiritual, not physical.  You suffer from Islamophobia and everyone can see how you hallucinate that muslims are always trying to attack you or your religion.  You convince yourself to believe that Islam is a religion of hate and oppression and use every opportunity you have to launch attacks on Islam.  You keep on watching and posting videos of David Wood - who spreads lies about Muhammad and Islam with the most sarcastic smile on his face - and you have now become programmed to believe everything the guy says.  Jesus Christ warned you against those types of people when he said:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." [Matthew 7:15]

Incidentally, in the same chapter, Jesus also warns you about judging others - in as much as you said the Qur'an teaches violence, not seeing that the Bible itself contains numerous verses teaching violence - so, Jesus Christ is telling you:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

"How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." [Matthew 7:1-5]


Isn't it about time you overcome your irrational fears, get out of your coccoon and start thinking for yourself?

The Moderated Section of the forum has rules to protect discussions from becoming a useless poop-flinging zone of personal insults, attacks, and lies, that benefits no one.

Flaming is 100% disallowed in this section of the forum. Posters are encouraged to limit their posting here to substantive, conversationally ethical posts relevant to the topic of the thread & to express any disagreement they may have with any individual or stance in a coherent & respectful way. Other things which are highly discouraged & likely to result in punitive measures (determined on a case by case basis via the application of common sense) include: content that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, torturous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene*, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable or generally unlawful.*

The self-proclaimed Muslim trio of Tora, lightbringer, and Ze_saint have, instead of sticking to discussion, insisted on repeated and unfounded personal attacks:

You are just pathetic.

I can see clearly that you are sick and you need help.

The girl is retarded

Probably one of the many jobless/parent basement dweller/<insert favourite drug
here>abuser/living off government pity money/unemployed loser

You come tell me what you are worth. I bet pretty much nothing.

I have the freedom to address anything you post, or nothing at all. I am not legally obligated to engage with and spend time on people who insist on being rude and degrading.

This is a warning about personal attacks (such as "you are sick, you are retarded, you are worthless, you are pathetic") which contribute nothing to the topic at hand and are the type of actually offensive nonsense claims that betray your true intention here, which is to try to bully me into silence or to intimidate with numbers or to harass me, rather than pursue actual dialogue.

I have the right to not reply to you ever, if I so choose. That does not give you a license to spew discriminatory Christophobic hate.

This is a warning against personal attacks. A respectful apology would be nice, if you want to show that you value me as a human being (since I've been called worthless by the Muslims, although it's unclear if it was because I'm a woman or because I'm a Christian or because I'm a critic or because I live in North America...still waiting on the results of that one).

Stick to the topic, present evidence, attack opinions and beliefs, but personal attacks are not going to be tolerated in this section of the forum.

My reason for posting, my purpose in posting, is so that you and any other readers may come to know the truth of God and the love of God, that we see in Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for our sins and gives the only way of salvation to humankind. I pray for you 3 and a number of others. I don't hate you at all. I care about what happens to you. That's why I'm here.

What is your goal for me, from this interaction? What's your ideal outcome? Do you hope to turn me into a Muslim? What benefits does Islam offer, other than having to share your husband with 3 other women?

Any and every single one of Ze_Saint's issues can be easily addressed, but the problem is that even when he is presented with evidence, he refused to acknowledge it.

IE.

Ze_Saint view: The Bible does not say Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3, 14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

The evidence is clear, and plentiful. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God.

Whether you believe in the authority of God's Word and whether you believe what Jesus said is another matter.

But the Bible most certainly, without question, teaches that Jesus is God.

Regarding David Wood, tell me some "lies" that he has spread.

I've watched a number of his videos, and he is basically reading out of the Quran and hadiths.

It's very interesting that reading the Quran is considered "Islamophobic".

Islamophobia is a nonsense term used as a weapon to protect a bad religion from honest criticism. I say the religion is bad because violence against non-Muslims is bad and oppression of women is bad.

Together with "RACIST", they are used irrationally to silence any person who would investigate the religion of Islam.

So far, I have

1. Posted quotations from the Quran
2. Posted videos of Arab people speaking
3. Posted people reading the Quran and talking about what it says
4. Posted video evidence of Muslim activity

None of these things is racist. None of my concerns about Islam have anything to do with race. Those who say it does are desperately trying to find some smear label to stop people from open discussion and fact-finding. I am all for reading the Quran and finding out what it really says, and for listening to Arab people. and for looking at evidence, facts, statistics, studies, and listening to eyewitnesses.

I actually knew fairly little about Islam, other than the obvious common knowledge stuff like it was founded by some guy named Muhammad and that women live under a garbage bag-looking thing that must get really hot in the summer and have no rights, until Tora brought it up here:

https://youtu.be/iji7sULZIOY

And I started to do research and listen to Arab people and find out what the Quran teaches and find out what was going on in countries where thousands and thousands of Muslim immigrants were taken in and provided food and clothing and shelter.

What I learned was simply shocking. It opened my eyes to so much suffering and my heart goes out to these girls and women.

And the testimonies of Muslims that had become Christians were so moving and beautiful. That Jesus Christ's love had come to these people, both men and women, was the most beautiful thing I'd seen in a long time, and I started praying for Muslims and asked my church to start praying for Muslims again (as it had frequently in the past also).

The church body I'm a part of has actually helped sponsor Muslims coming to Canada:

http://www.canadianlutheran.ca/refugee-sponsorship-demonstrates-christian-charity/

So the desire to attack and harm the person is a one-way thing. Christians do not want to hurt Muslims. Christians want to help Muslims and help them see the love of Jesus Christ, so they may be saved and have eternal life by faith in the perfect life and innocent death of Jesus Christ our Lord.