New Player: Pupil seeking Teacher.

[Piano]

Hi there,

By my continual frustration with how Blizzard destroys SC:BW and in search of new challenges, I've decided I want to step away from BW for a while and dive head deep into WC2.

I saw the following post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/528402-warcraft-ii-gow-2vs2-championship#1 and began to ponder.
How steep is the competition and learning curve to be able to compete in this tournament?

Is there someone willing to help me setup this game. Portforward, anithack, etc. and then teach me 2v2? Would you be willing to partner me in the above tournament as well?
My goal is likely way too far fetched. I've always played 2v2 a 3v3 in BW, 2v2 on a reasonably high level. I think I have a good developed strategic mindset for 2v2. So with good coaching I believe I can quickly at least become a decent player that's fun to play with or against.
In BW I always liked Terran the best, in WC2 I would like to take Human as my main race.

Looking forward to positive replies. I'm very eager to learn this game, but I'd really like someone to hold my hand for a bit.
Note: Prize-money is not a motivation to get into this game. I legitimately want to discover and get into WC2.

Feel free to flame me if I'm way in over my head. (I've only played WC2 as single player, about 20 years ago, but it has always remained one of my favorite games!)

Piano

[mousEtopher]

hi Piano, welcome! that's great that you have an interest in learning war2 as someone who comes from a strong rts background, i think that'll give you a great edge and curb the learning curve quite a bit. I can give you any help you need on the technical side getting things set up, you can pm me on the server with /w mousetopher or can also join our discord server @ http://en.war2.ru/discord i can usually be gotten ahold of pretty fast with either of those two.

i'm also willing to game with you & give you some starting tips but i'm at level mediocre myself so can't do much beyond basics and some insight into game mechanics. ~ToRa~ is another admin who often hosts all level player games too. yamon at the discord server might be willing to give you some more advanced training after you get the basics (if he tells you to eat shit when you ask him that's actually a sign of affection) and people in general are pretty friendly & willing to give their opinions if you just ask questions & solicit advice (whether it's here on the forum or in the game or at discord). I also know CaptainKurtz and TheGoodShepherd have been doing all player friendly games in the evenings fairly often for the past months, Kurtz has been posting the announcements for the times in the discord server.

i'm also going to move your thread into the "server.war2.ru" section since that one gets more traffic and i think you'll get more responses there!

[~ToRa~]

I would highly recommend you subscribe to the war2combat channel on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/user/war2combat

Here you will find 100s of videos of top level play.

[~ToRa~]

Also I play daily around 9-10am Eastern if I you see me join my games ill play and teach you.

[O4L]

You should talk to ejji:reaper about becoming a training partner. BW pro and a WC3 pro coming together.

http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,3646.0.html

I am in the same boat as mousetopher.. always willing to game with you but not the best for giving tips. We do have a ton of fun when we get a series going though mixing up new and pros.. so always look for me especially on the weekends.

If you have facebook PM me that as well.

[Piano]

Thanks for the warm welcome.  My ID on the server is Yamaha, please don't be afraid to /w me when you see me!

I've already played a few games with XuRnT.

I find it hard to learn from replays/castings for now, because I still need to ingrain hotkeys and I'm still clueless about tech trees.
I will try to get those basics down today. From videos I did watch I've seen the casters go off-topic quite a lot, I'll try to watch again when I got my basics down.

I generally don't use social media. I should have a discord account though.
I'm trying to focus on Human and 2v2. 3v3 seems like a good start to learn the game through playing.


I got tower rushed early game in a 3v3. From Starcraft experience I'm pretty sure I know how to respond. My opponent built 1 tower, I immediately start 2 towers in range of his as a reaction. Then I find out I needed a Lumber Mill in order to actually make my towers useful. Rip me.

How is my opening build?
1. Town Hall - Farm
2. Peon + 2nd Farm
3. Barracks+Lumbermill (LM to defend vs TR).
4. Black Smith + Barracks
Spam peons/units all game long without getting supply blocked.

Can I delay my 2nd Farm without becoming supply blocked?
At how many Peons is it generally a good idea to tech up to Keep?
What is a good time to get Castle? I noticed that one is quite pricey. I would like to avoid dying due to investing into Castle too early.
What is the max number of Peons you should have?
Is playing defensive in order to get Castle tech a thing in 2v2 (land maps)?
In what order should I upgrade in my Black Smith? lvl 1 Attack - lvl 1 Armor - lvl 2 Attack - lvl 2 Armor?
I was told upgrading catapults is a waste of resources. Could you confirm?
What counters Death Knights?
How should I ideally deal with Bloodlusted Ogres? They seem the go to Orc unit in every mid/late game.
When is the best time to play?
How many Footies do I need to counter 4, 5 and 6 Grunts? (For simplicity sake consider we both A-move)
Important abbreviations? (So far I know GoW, EF and TR)
Can I set this site's time to show everything as CET?  It's slightly confusing for now.
How do I avoid typing I''m in game lobby when I mean to spell I'm?

In think it's in my best interest to skip water maps for now, as my first immediate goal is to get competitive enough for the GoW 2v2 tournament in december.
Shout out to anyone willing to become my 2v2 partner!

Finally... If anyone is willing to observe me and coach me while I'm playing... lol... I'd love you, no paypal account links plz. I'm piss poor
I can return the favor by playing WC2 with you! ^^

[Disgruntled]

yes you can build something (rax smith mill) with your 2nd peon and use the 3rd for the farm without needing to rep the farm

peons to keep = 19-21 or so seems resonable
getting castle happens soon after keep.  (
never a max number of peons
nobody really plays humans.  good and intermediate players stand very little to no chance with them
sheilds swords, is my starting order
if you'lre in a situation where you're using them (s9 vs 9) it may be worthwhile if you have the resources lying around.. otherwise, mostly not seen (nwtr)
good map situational awareness.. where they are coming from, what route they are taking. a few patroling grunts or ogres along these paths
deal with bloodlusted orges with your own bloodlusted ogres, but if you want to be stuborn human. chokes or wallins and having blizzard to destroy them
best times are saturday nights est.  anytime other time new people are on you can spar with; log on and ask if anybody newish is around
nobody attack moves, patrol move for quick engagement.  the same number unless you can set up a 3v2 or similar situation through a choke...
theres a webpage for our shorthand, someone can link it.  there is no TR afaik
unsure about your timezone issue
don't hit shift?
you do not understand what competative is

[Vizzer]

Thanks for the warm welcome.  My ID on the server is Yamaha, please don't be afraid to /w me when you see me!

I've already played a few games with XuRnT.

I find it hard to learn from replays/castings for now, because I still need to ingrain hotkeys and I'm still clueless about tech trees.
I will try to get those basics down today. From videos I did watch I've seen the casters go off-topic quite a lot, I'll try to watch again when I got my basics down.

I generally don't use social media. I should have a discord account though.
I'm trying to focus on Human and 2v2. 3v3 seems like a good start to learn the game through playing.


I got tower rushed early game in a 3v3. From Starcraft experience I'm pretty sure I know how to respond. My opponent built 1 tower, I immediately start 2 towers in range of his as a reaction. Then I find out I needed a Lumber Mill in order to actually make my towers useful. Rip me.

How is my opening build?
1. Town Hall - Farm
2. Peon + 2nd Farm
3. Barracks+Lumbermill (LM to defend vs TR).
4. Black Smith + Barracks
Spam peons/units all game long without getting supply blocked.

Can I delay my 2nd Farm without becoming supply blocked?
At how many Peons is it generally a good idea to tech up to Keep?
What is a good time to get Castle? I noticed that one is quite pricey. I would like to avoid dying due to investing into Castle too early.
What is the max number of Peons you should have?
Is playing defensive in order to get Castle tech a thing in 2v2 (land maps)?
In what order should I upgrade in my Black Smith? lvl 1 Attack - lvl 1 Armor - lvl 2 Attack - lvl 2 Armor?
I was told upgrading catapults is a waste of resources. Could you confirm?
What counters Death Knights?
How should I ideally deal with Bloodlusted Ogres? They seem the go to Orc unit in every mid/late game.
When is the best time to play?
How many Footies do I need to counter 4, 5 and 6 Grunts? (For simplicity sake consider we both A-move)
Important abbreviations? (So far I know GoW, EF and TR)
Can I set this site's time to show everything as CET?  It's slightly confusing for now.
How do I avoid typing I''m in game lobby when I mean to spell I'm?

In think it's in my best interest to skip water maps for now, as my first immediate goal is to get competitive enough for the GoW 2v2 tournament in december.
Shout out to anyone willing to become my 2v2 partner!

Finally... If anyone is willing to observe me and coach me while I'm playing... lol... I'd love you, no paypal account links plz. I'm piss poor
I can return the favor by playing WC2 with you! ^^

I would enjoy taking on somebody and helping them to learn the game in my freetime, im

Vizzer in game just ask me if you have any questions Regarding to the current questions above: Your 2nd farm should be built with your 2nd peon or you will be supply blocked 18-22 peons is what you should be at before going keep Castle should happen immediatly after your stable is done, and you should rep your stable with 3-5 peons(pulling these peons from your goldmine, not your choppers). The castle will increase how much gold you get per bag and will open up mages/air/(lust for orc). At this point you should have 4 barracks minimum to pump out knights, for humans you should be pumping 6 rax minimum tho, humans will require a great ammount of focus,micro, training to perfect and is highly not recommended for you to start out as. There is no max number of peons in war2, go for 100 if possible (wont happen) Yes, playing defensive to get castle is a strategy we call powering. Initially you would rush out with 6 footman to scout the map and harass if you can and wall off your base, make a catapult(ballista) and defend while you tech up. You should upgrade shield>weapon>weapon>shield the last 2 upgrades can swap depending on your resources, the 2nd weapon upgrade for humans is probably going to happen last because of how much more expensive it is. Upgrading to level 2 catapults is a great advantage (only when you find yourself in a catapult war). Catapults do something like 20-180 dmg per hit, the upgrade makes it so that they don't do the minimum 20 dmg which will result in needing 3 hits to kill a catapult over the usual 2. Level 3 cats are pretty useless as it costs too much. Melee units counter death knights, since F isn't played as much the counters for units aren't as known, but the counter for units would be Knights>Mages>Air>Knights. This is highly effected by micro, as air units have a low response time on EF, which is why they are not used. Blizzard would be the only way to deal with bloodlusted ogres, along with a couple of gryphons (you can kill your own units with your magic as  well). Your knights should not be fighting lusted ogres unless you drastically overwhelm them or out position the ogres in a big way. You can also set up a few knights to fight a group of lusted ogres to hold their ogres in place while you drop a blizzard on top of them. Blizzard does more damage than death and decay to units, so it will be your most powerful late game tool as a humans player. (you won't be able to compete with humans at the highest levels of game play) Best time to play would be morning/afternoon(EST), as that is when the strong european players are online. Evening/Late(EST) would be when strong American players get on. to fight 4,5,6 grunts you should have 4,5,6 footman or at least out level him. If you have less do not fight unless you out position him in some sort of a choke.

[00Brett]

Hit me up in game I'd be more than happy to help out.  Can get on discord or something and talk through some stuff if you want. 

[O4L]

Did you really beat ilyich two times already?

[Piano]

Did you really beat ilyich two times already?

It was obvious he was dicking around, but that did help me practice.

I found out I really need to grind GoW to get to know the map well enough. Depending on my spawning position I can have either a pretty good game or out right terrible game.
I'm still fighting buildable space and pathing really hard. And I'm not balancing income properly yet... It's quite easy to learn the hotkeys and tech routes, but to remember costs of each building, unit and upgrade is a whole different thing. I'm thinking I will probably need to grind about 100 GoW games with good focus before I become decent (on that map).

Is it arrogant to play Human only? I'm getting comments I should learn Orc first... and that it is a much better race on GoW.

I can tell this game is a whole lot of fun once you get your 500-1000 games in. Right now it feels a bit overwhelming of how much there is to know.
And it feels like I'm learning a bit slower than I had hoped.
I could really benefit from some more solid build orders and overcoming the struggle to find more effective building placement.

Shout out to ilyich and SX-5 for the friendly help and advice.

[Winchester]

Is it arrogant to play Human only? I'm getting comments I should learn Orc first... and that it is a much better race on GoW.

Im someone who plays Human frequently and i'd suggest to a new player to learn orcs first, Bloodlust is a really powerful spell and is what always wins games for orc players in the mid-late game. If you're human, you always need to run away from bloodlusted ogres it if you have a group of knights or they get wiped out quickly while hardly damaging the ogres unless you severely outnumber them. This applies too if you're orc, but you at least havve the option to bloodlust your ogres mid fight.

Humans requires alot of annoying strats that you don't see orc players doing and alot more map awareness at all times in order to win consistently against someone of the same tier once it hits the bloodlust stage of the game.

[00Brett]

Humans vs Orc....  In short, bloodlust is very very powerful....  if your games aren't getting to that point it really doesn't matter one way or the other.  The hotkeys are slightly different though, I would recommend picking one or the other...doesn't really make a huge difference when learning the basics.

[justinschmidt]

Play human, orcs are for sissy girls.

[Shotgun]

Hi Yamon