Theory of evolution

[Lambchops]

Damn. I was hoping someone would explain why I have nipples 


.... nvm .... Look, as far as DTOE goes:  usually with science we like to be able to perform an experiment to test a hypothesis. It's very easy to design an experiment to test DTOE - Just take a 100% sterile environment with enough space and some water and stuff in it and the right amount of radiation (i.e. another earth-type planet but with no life), then you just throw in one microbe and wait for a while - probably 100,000 years would be long enough to start seeing solid results, but 10 or 20 million years would be better ...... and its also going to take us about the same amount of time to carry the microbe to the new planet.

On the other hand, if you want results a bit sooner than that, then the best you can do is to clearly define your theory then look for pre-existing results that support it - which in this case is virtually every scientific observation made in every related field (genetics, biology, anthropology etc.) by every scientist in the world.

If you don't believe in science, then please turn off your computer now as it is clearly powered by voodoo and that shit is nasty 

The TOE is just one of those obvious things like gravity. The difference is we don't understand gravity, we can just observe the effect it has without understanding how it works. BUT we DO have the entire mechanism for evolution understood - DNA sequencing is now commonplace and multiple complete genomes are mapped allowing us to observe the changes - its a no-brainer.

The only reason people have trouble with it, is because they see it as conflicting with their faith. TO ME THIS SEEMS TO BE SIMPLY A LACK OF FAITH. If there is an intelligent creator then this is obviously the method he/she used to create us - the evidence is EVERYWHERE.

    Surely your faith in GOD should be strong enough to survive the scientific method?
 

Why would anyone believe that the TOE should be incompatible with faith?

Because a MAN told you it is?

Don't believe the man, ask GOD.
( GOD is not a fool  )

[~ToRa~]

If you don't believe in science, then please turn off your computer now as it is clearly powered by voodoo and that shit is nasty 

lol what does a computer have to do with Darwinian Evolution.

[Lambchops]

If you don't believe in science, then please turn off your computer now as it is clearly powered by voodoo and that shit is nasty 

lol what does a computer have to do with Darwinian Evolution.

Oh. I thought that was obvious:

They are both products of the scientific method, but are at opposite ends of the time scale:

- Things that happen with electronics happen on a scale of micro or nano-seconds, they happen so fast that computers can do more calculations than humans can really even comprehend properly, but we can see the results instantly, so there is no denying that they work.

 - Things that happen with evolution happen on a scale of years (lots of them) so it's less accessable for people to visualise. BUT ... to the universe a thousand years is just the blink of an eye so there can still be countless millions of changes to DNA sequences, which brings about evolution.

Denial produces nothing and achieves nothing (unless you count extremist terrorism as an achievment), but modern technology is proof that the scientific method of thinking actually WORKS. It creates things. Your car. Your computer. Your dogs microchip.

People will accept all of these things but then go into denial about something that is a result of exactly the same methodology as soon as some TV evangelist or what-not tells them that GOD says otherwise.

Sorry, but the guy on the TV is a dick, and my GOD is not a freakin idiot.

  Maybe your GOD is kinda simple, but my GOD is way smart enough to have created evolution.

Evolution DOES NOT disprove GOD, it only proves that some MEN who thought they knew everything about GOD were wrong.

Go look up "pride" in your favorite scripture, my GOD will get a good lol out of it.

[~ToRa~]

^^lol

Ultimately you can't prove something this is only testable over millions of years.
Theory doesn't = proof.

[Lambchops]

^^lol

Ultimately you can't prove something this is only testable over millions of years.
Theory doesn't = proof.

Not without the capacity to think, anyway.

Spare me the trite quotes from the deniers handbook. If you're not interested in having a discussion, don't ask questions on a discussion board.

As science already has about 1000000 runs on the board, I think the burden of proof definately rests with the "Adam and Eve" camp. Prove that ROTF

[~ToRa~]

You keep bringing up religion lol. Where did I post anything about religion?

[~ToRa~]

All I'm saying is evolution is not provable thus it is a theory and thus is a belief. You can throw all the scientific research u want at it but at the end of the day you can't prove humans evolved from a monkey or whatever.
There is no observable evidence of any species turning from one kind into another. Like a cat turning into a dog etc.

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

[Lambchops]

You keep bringing up religion lol. Where did I post anything about religion?

I didn't suggest that you brought it up. I am also happy to admit that I simply assumed that religion was behind your opinions.

I am happy to admit this because I am not afraid of the truth - denial is for the weak-minded.

I assumed (and still do assume) that is the case, for the rather simple reason that I have never in my life heard of anyone suffering from that particular brand of denial who wasn't doing it based on a combination of religion, peer group pressure and ignorance. The rest of the world doesn't bother denying such obvious stuff.

.... you can't prove humans evolved from a monkey or whatever. .... There is no observable evidence of any species turning from one kind into another. Like a cat turning into a dog etc.

This is the ignorance bit. Please try to understand something before you parrot someone else's opinions about it.

Humans did not evolve from monkeys.
Cats do not turn into dogs.



Evolution has been proved, because the mechanism has been proved. It does not take millions of years to prove that:

   a) DNA replication occasionally suffers from random flaws.
   b) Changes in DNA will affect the physiology of the organism that it produces.
   c) Organisms who's physiology is better suited to their environment will be more successfull at replicating their DNA

That's really all you need to prove, everything else is just a logical extension of those FACTS. Just as I dont have to actually throw myself into the sun to prove I will be burnt, just knowing it's hot, and that hot things will burn me is sufficiant.

Do you believe that the sun exists? How do you know it's not a big light bulb hanging from the sky? If its really a huge ball of burning plasma then you can never get near it without being vaporised... does this mean we can't prove it? Are you sure Australia exists? Have you ever been there? Why dont you deny the existance of the sun? ..... Answer: because the MAN you listen to didn't tell you that you had to deny that. So very sad    My friend I have more proof that evolution is real, than I have proof that YOU are real.

Last attempt at intelligent discussion:
Tell me how is it that in a few thousand years we have bred both rotweillers and toy poodles from wolves?... or don't you believe in dog breeding either? Sure humans have sped up the process a bit by selecting breeding partners, but exactly how did the DNA of a wolf turn into the DNA of a toy poodle? GOD was bored that day? or did Noah have a pair of toy poodles that he fed on peanut-butter? Why does the flu virus constantly mutate. How did the bird-flu epidemic happen?

Do you know what DNA is? Do you believe it exists? If not for evolution why and how does it exist? If you don't believe in it, do you still cheer when they execute a mass-murderer who was convicted based on DNA evidence? Why do I have nipples? Why do you believe the word of GOD comes out of the mouths of ignorant men when it is so clearly all around us, and beautiful to behold?

  ... now go look that stuff up in "the denial handbook" and post what it says. Peace out homie.

[~ToRa~]

Tell me how is it that in a few thousand years we have bred both rotweillers and toy poodles from wolves

You can breed different species of dogs. However you cannot breed an entirely new species. Saying that "we bred one dog into a new dog," isn't proof. You can't prove something that isn't observable. You cannot breed one species into an entirely new species.

I must say evolutionists defend their beliefs with the same zeal as christians do their beliefs lol.

[Igognito]

So @~ToRa~, you clearly think that Evolution is not what made us Humans.

What you suggest then? There are plenty of theories:

Adam & Eva theory by Judaism, Christianity & Muslims
A theory which I do not know from Hinduism
Alien theory by Conspiracy theorists and Battlestar Galactica
and many more...

[shesycompany]

well laws is defiantly weird can it come from a non conscious?

[Lambchops]

Tell me how is it that in a few thousand years we have bred both rotweillers and toy poodles from wolves

You can breed different species of dogs. However you cannot breed an entirely new species. Saying that "we bred one dog into a new dog," isn't proof. You can't prove something that isn't observable. You cannot breed one species into an entirely new species.

The definition of a 'species' is a subjective human construct. It is childish to assume that two things are the same because we use the same english word to describe them. Is a rat the same as a mouse? How about a rabbit? or a squirrel?

As we have established that DNA changes and therefore the organisms that is constructs changes, you can't just declare some change to be "out of bounds" because of some imaginary line the divides one creature from another.

Its an aweful coincidence that so many creatures have 2 eyes, one mouth, and a nose in the middle don't you think? How amazing that the poodle, the rotweiller and myself all share this same configuration.... and come to think of it we all have 2 ears and a brain in a skull, and a spine and 4 limbs that are similarly jointed .... and nipples! Wow. What are the odds?

... and BTW If GOD created us in his image why would he make a monkey - which would surely just be a mockery of his own image?

I must say evolutionists defend their beliefs with the same zeal as christians do their beliefs lol.

Yes, my friend. I believe that you are one of the more valuable, and indeed intelligent members of our community.

If your friends convinced you that you could fly, I would do my best to talk you out of stepping off a cliff. However if I failed, the reality of the fall would require no defence and would also further demonstrate that which Mr.Darwin so eloquently described for us.

      You could refuse to believe it the whole way down, but Darwin would still be right in the end.

[~ToRa~]

@ingognito I say let people believe what they want to believe. Some people believe in religion, some believe in evolution and science, some believe in random things etc.

Who are you, or me, or anyone for that matter to tell someone else what to believe in based upon their own beliefs.

Problem I have with hard core evolutionists is that they are very rigid in their belief that evolution is "fact" and thus not a belief. You point out to them that evolution can't really be proven and it is still only theory they go nuts. As evidenced here on this thread.

Side note:
I don't really disbelieve in evolution. Could humans and all organisms have evolved from one another over millions of years, in short yes. However I do recognize said theory of evolution is just that. A theory and thus a belief. I have friends who are 100% believers in all things science and I have friends who follow their religious books and the adam & eve belief. (I even know people who believe in Annunaki lizards lol.)

You should re read my posts never said anything about religion in any of them lol.

[Lambchops]

You cannot breed one species into an entirely new species.

Could humans and all organisms have evolved from one another over millions of years, in short yes.

These two contradictory statements show that you don't even understand it... and no, using the word "breed" does not change anything. External selection only speeds up the process.

Religious extremism is a curse on this planet. If I started a thread saying that all women should keep their heads covered, not be allowed to drive or vote or be educated, and that if any schools taught girls we should send suicide bombers into them, then continued to refute any opinion to the contrary - but then said, "Oh but I didn't mention religion", I don't think anyone would be fooled.

In the same way I have never met or even heard of anyone who trys to cast doubt on evolution who isn't a religious extremist. Yes, that is an extremist belief, not a mainstream one, albeit the thin end of the wedge. You are probably more comfortable with the term "fundamentalist" .... tomato-tomato.
 
To be honest I'd respect you more if you stood up for your beliefs, instead of this pseudo fence-sitting, it's a bit weak really.... that's just my opinion - but hey, this is "General Discussion" after all.