Re: Trump won and all I can think about is ^adam^

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

There's no implementing Marx's ideas into government as Marx never wrote about how a government should function. There were only Lenin's and Mao's interpretations, not Marx himself.

The reason why your ideal system fails is because it is based on the assumption or theory that the only way for a company to increase profit is through exploiting labor.  This has been proven wrong so many times it has actually moved Marxism from a science to a pseudoscience.

How was that ever proven wrong? It's more accurate than ever.

[Firesand]

False, Karl Marx, believed that another class of people would help the working class with there revolution which is how we even got communision introduced.  He wrote with Engel's the manifesto.  You are delirious if you believe that Karl Marx didn't have a political agenda or a role in how his economic ideas would play out in a functioning government. 

Marx premise was everything involved with the production of a product less wages was profit.  Therefore the only way one could have a surplus/profit would be by decreasing wages.  This is totally false as you can take the lowering of costs and maintaining a steady wage and still see lower profits.  His economic approach only takes into account systemic company risks and completely disregards market risk, or factors that said company can't control.  A company can not control the weather, a government/group of controlling companies flooding the market with supplies destroying companies "profit" (example OPEC). 

Karl Marx even wrote on human nature and its role in society.  For someone who claims they are a classical Marxist your knowledge on this is very shallow.  Hell Karl Marx formed many of his ideas from Adam Smith and other capitalist who warned about the same damn thing he warned about which happened in Russia!  Like I said everyone who has tried to implement his ideas to an entire class have failed miserable.  Does Marx have solid thoughts behind labor hell yes he does, but his idea of a social revolution as the only path to fix it is horseshit, hence unions.  I mean you do realize that most economists understand some of the value that Karl Marx had, but they also understand that his methods were only theory's that just were wrong.

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

No. He never wrote on ways government should work. Again, there have only been interpretations from others after his death.

His masterwork Capital damned the bourgeoisie class, a class he was a part of, his ideas threw him into poverty and yet he never stopped publishing his works, despite his situation. Seems like his "political agenda" was actually giving a fuck about the majority of the populace, the working classes, of all nations.

Marx premise was everything involved with the production of a product less wages was profit.  Therefore the only way one could have a surplus/profit would be by decreasing wages.

Basically Marx believed capitalists did not give workers the value they actually produced, capitalists stole it in surplus value. This is pretty much unavoidable since if capitalists actually gave workers their fair share, the capitalist class would cease to exist as all their wealth is produced by the worker. This is true, it's why workers get paid wages and capitalists have inordinate amounts of wealth, despite not producing anything.

This is totally false as you can take the lowering of costs and maintaining a steady wage and still see lower profits.

This is just an attribute of a shitty business and not a rebuttal to anything Marx wrote.

His economic approach only takes into account systemic company risks and completely disregards market risk, or factors that said company can't control.  A company can not control the weather, a government/group of controlling companies flooding the market with supplies destroying companies "profit" (example OPEC)

Marx lived through several of capitalism's inherent recessions and wrote about capitalists competing with other capitalists, so yea he knew these things.

Hell Karl Marx formed many of his ideas from Adam Smith

Yeah he read The Wealth of Nations and other bourgie economists. This is partly why he understood capitalism so well. He obliterated many of Smith's arguments and developed a better, more concise labour theory of value than Smith did.

hence unions

Unions haven't helped improved overall working conditions adequately if at all, unions sure as shit aren't helping working class in the third world. This is mainly because of the push back from capitalists, hence why capitalists and capitalism need to go if workers everywhere are ever going to be truly free.

[CumSavorer4385]

I see that Yamon is still trying to educate people on here.  In regards to the min wage discussion...  if you want a great example look at the states that just passed higher Min wage laws, then do a search for automated services that McDonalds just announced for testing and roll out to replace those jobs.  If you think min wage increases don't have a direct impact on loss of jobs, maybe you shouldn't look to the politicians propaganda and look at what the businesses that are directly impacted are doing.  When unemployment raises the cost of labor would naturally become lower as the supply of workers has increased.  By have a law/regulation in place min wage, it negates the natural process of supply/demand and restricts the ability to compete or correct that supply.   

You are a Mormon retard.

[CumSavorer4385]

Interesting accessment you gathered there.  I'm not surprised by it as you clearly were confused by Yamon's viewpoints.  If you want to bring up class consciousness in relation to minium wage then do so.  I was obviously discussing minium wage based on economics. 

Yet you yourself have already proved that you believe in separating people into a class system by simply labeling people who disagree with you as idiots, stupid, or there opinions don't matter... much like most of the people here do. 

Class is real you retard.

[CumSavorer4385]

lol i forgot that this dude is a farmer which makes him one of the biggest government teat suckers in the country

[shesycompany]

wb fuckboi!

[Firesand]

Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto which is a political document which you completely ignored in my last comment.  He teamed up with Engels which came from wealth and Engels published 2 of Marx books from his notes after his death.  Marx came from nothing and ended with nothing.  His accomplishments are all theory based which others failed when trying to actually implement them. His work will always fail because point blank humans are going to always fold to greed/curroption/power whatever you want to put there because it is inherent in there behavior.  Karl Marx knew this which is why he addressed human nature in one of his first works. 

Shitty business... what a complete sell out you are when you actually have to discuss real life situations that occur to all businesses period.  You are a total fake.  Karl Marx was at a time when globalization was just starting.  The man never even talked about mass inflation, devaluing of currency, nor any of the many ways business suffer and have no control over.  He was valued in his time until no one could successful do what he wanted.  Yet years later you still worship him yet you bash the founding fathers of America who only lived 50 plus years earlier saying they are out dated. 

Interesting the the founding fathers of a country who used Adam Smith as there economic engine has a country that is still around, yet I see no country that is successful in implementing Karl Marx. 

The class system is real yes, but so is the real opportunity that anyone has (within certain countries) a chance to change there class and become wealthy.  That is the American dream having that opportunity.  This is not a popular opinion on this specific board, yet most of the posters here have not done much in the last 10 years of there life.

Yes I am a Mormon, which is why I take interest in this topic as Mormons tried to live in a society just like Marx wanted... it failed too for the same reasons, the human behavior.  Glad you remembered me.

[CumSavorer4385]

Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto which is a political document which you completely ignored in my last comment.  He teamed up with Engels which came from wealth and Engels published 2 of Marx books from his notes after his death.  Marx came from nothing and ended with nothing.  His accomplishments are all theory based which others failed when trying to actually implement them. His work will always fail because point blank humans are going to always fold to greed/curroption/power whatever you want to put there because it is inherent in there behavior.  Karl Marx knew this which is why he addressed human nature in one of his first works. 

Shitty business... what a complete sell out you are when you actually have to discuss real life situations that occur to all businesses period.  You are a total fake.  Karl Marx was at a time when globalization was just starting.  The man never even talked about mass inflation, devaluing of currency, nor any of the many ways business suffer and have no control over.  He was valued in his time until no one could successful do what he wanted.  Yet years later you still worship him yet you bash the founding fathers of America who only lived 50 plus years earlier saying they are out dated. 

Interesting the the founding fathers of a country who used Adam Smith as there economic engine has a country that is still around, yet I see no country that is successful in implementing Karl Marx. 

The class system is real yes, but so is the real opportunity that anyone has (within certain countries) a chance to change there class and become wealthy.  That is the American dream having that opportunity.  This is not a popular opinion on this specific board, yet most of the posters here have not done much in the last 10 years of there life.

Yes I am a Mormon, which is why I take interest in this topic as Mormons tried to live in a society just like Marx wanted... it failed too for the same reasons, the human behavior.  Glad you remembered me.

Retard.

[Firesand]

I see how you have gotten 2000 posts... amazing rebuttals.  I mean you should teach a class on how to do it, even charge a fee, just make sure to give it all back to the members you teach.

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

The Communist Manifesto is something Marx wrote in his 20s , and yea it was mostly Marx who wrote it, Engels did very little. Engels was more involved in Capital than he was the Manifesto. Marx's masterwork Capital is much more important to understanding Marx's theories, which you haven't read at all. You're another idiot who's read 5 pages the Manifesto and thinks he's an expert on Marx, I see these liberals all the time. Also Marx had a much better grasp on "human nature" than modern liberals do.

Also Adam Smith had many of his ideas ignored, particularly his labour theory of value and his critiques on joint stock companies. Smith would not even like the system we live in today in the slightest.

[Firesand]

I am not an expert in Marx, I know enough about him and his works to have a conversation about him.  I do know enough and have participated in enough cooperatives that I respect the theory he was trying to accomplish.  I do not like people who pretend that Marx did not have a profound influence on many systems that have failed utterly by trying to distance him to what was trying to be accomplished.  I also dislike Marxists who do not live in reality and actually try to work with capitalists to find a better way.  Both systems have flaws, yet one system has found success in many ways while the other hasn't.  The Soviet Union is one of the biggest failures that originated from Karl Marx works.  Any Marxist who deny's that is only making excuses because they don't want that failure to be on Marx.  The sad reality is Marx even stated that a socialst society would eventually fail and go back to barbarism. 

[tora is a simp bitch for billionaires]

Russia, for example, was never more powerful in its entire history, than during the USSR era. So you'll to define fail. Then prove it failed due to its "socialist" policies and not outside influence from western powers. As well, just because Marx was an influence behind this hardly means he would have agreed with everyone that interpreted his ideas into politics.

[tk[as]]

Technology is advancing every day.. machines have been and will continue to replace human bodies in the work force until technology gets to the point where there are literally no jobs a machine can't do. Right now 1% of the U.s. Population holds over 50% of the nation's wealth. The middle class is shrinking every year, those in poverty grow every year, and the wealth the top 1% increases every year. Its not sustainable.  If the trend continues, there will be another catastrophic economic collapse. I'm not saying increasing the minimum wage is the permanent fix, but it is a temporary bandaid that will keep our economy "stable" until a more permanent solution comes along, or an inevitable collapse.

[tk[as]]

Our countries economy was arguably the strongest in the late 60s. If you account for inflation their minimum wage was roughly $11 an hour... and skilled trades/professions (particularly blue collared jobs) -after accounting for inflation - were higher as well