Author Topic: GGz! Byeee  (Read 12543 times)

Offline ~ToRa~

  • Server Admin
  • Death Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 3544
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2016, 04:18:28 AM »
burnt is blocking his base with 2nd hall very fast, i dont think its possible. and his strat looks very efficient, so i cant think of any "dirty" start that would be seen as bad manner and beneficial at the same time. cuz we're not talking peon hiding here obviously

It's was considered cheap by some players to make a hall or two and make lots of peons and then rush into the opponents base. Burnt walling quickly is probably more due to the threat of an invisible peon than to that thou.

It's also considered bad by some players to build against the walls of mid at start. Other than that nothing you can do that's really all that cheap. It is free castles after all.
 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 04:20:25 AM by ~ToRa~ »
war2 > war3

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2016, 05:09:36 AM »
i dont think theres anything wrong with those strategies other than peon-rushers instantly leaving after they see a blocked entrance (which they probably do as it's an all-in strat)

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2016, 09:54:03 AM »
i dont think theres anything wrong with those strategies other than peon-rushers instantly leaving after they see a blocked entrance (which they probably do as it's an all-in strat)

These rules are suggested because there are confines and restraints to the unit/building coding and placements along with map making restrictions. We make up for it by creating gentleman rules that have been in place for years. How is it that 90% (arbitrary number, but a number nonetheless that indicates that the majority of people follow these rules) know not to attack the lumbermill for example, yet now in 2016 it's a viable strategy? Maybe the game evolves, but that is a deevolution in class in my opinion. There are limitations to customs games that we don't see in classics and BNEs. Most customs were created for singular purposes.

Free grunts - mass clicking and UC
Archers - mass archers and UC/Flanking
Free Castles - mass buildings/units and pwn

Slick strategies are just a no no. People play these specific types of customs to use their accumulated fast-clicking skills and pit them against each other; not to deal with cheap shot tricks. Classics/BNEers may not understand because they play with a sub 200 APM while Burnt probably plays at a 350 apm or me at 300 apm. It's obviously not fun to most of the people that play gow and they've abandoned these customs years ago. But that doesn't mean it isn't fun in general to other people.

@Yamon, how did none of this make sense? Maybe you didn't read it through?
I love this game!

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2016, 10:27:25 AM »
People play these specific types of customs to use their accumulated fast-clicking skills and pit them against each other; not to deal with cheap shot tricks
and i assume that because you click so fast and reach incredible 300-350 APM, you cant prevent your lumbermill from falling down by
1) guarding it
2) creating back-up
3) blocking it?
what's the 350 apm good for, then? lol. I mean i could probably put one of my chickens on the keyboard and it would also press the keyboard at 350 apm rate, but we shoud talk about putting the speed to good use

Offline BenJamin

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2016, 11:24:12 AM »
Wow claw is making sense today. How does xurnt have 350 apm? Have you seen him talk?

Offline O4L

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2043
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 Server
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2016, 12:19:00 PM »
I think it's Asperger Syndrome

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2016, 12:32:06 PM »
Wow claw is making sense today. How does xurnt have 350 apm? Have you seen him talk?

You COULD do that, or you could do it in the battlefield archer versus archer. Unit control versus Unit control, using strategies like rush ranger, 2 hall, 1 hall etc. Maybe it's preferred playing type, but I play that map specifically to see who can reach certain points in the game faster and thus win. Claw is very good at that. I've never attacked the lumbermill intentionally. Maybe 3x in 500 games have I accidently clicked too high on the mini map and a couple archers got caught up clearing peons, but in my opinion and that of many others, it's a cheap shit strategy. I would have gone 2-2 against Claw (most likely) had he not wood raped and then probably lose 2-3 in the series. He got desperate for his $20 pizza money so he used that strategy. Now I did say he could do it knowing full well you'd have to have me at gunpoint for myself to do it. It was the only way he would play me.

Yamon uses an effective peon only rush that can suprise and destroy many archers players who haven't encountered that strategy. It's innovative and effective, but not what that game mode was meant for. He has also used a death knight rush on archers and dk'd gold flows before too. Once again innovative and destructive, but not what the map is intended for. Oh well, Liberals can't argue with Trump supporters and get through to them just as much as I can't develop an effective enough argument to change people like Claw's mind.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 12:33:47 PM by MaStA{hR} »
I love this game!

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2016, 12:38:32 PM »

I mean i could probably put one of my chickens on the keyboard and it would also press the keyboard at 350 apm rate

Maybe if your chicken pooped on the A key and held down making archers.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 12:41:39 PM by MaStA{hR} »
I love this game!

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2016, 12:41:31 PM »
I would have won against Claw (most likely) had he not wood raped
Ah, i see. So what you're saying is that your dual is able to win against a rusher if he leaves you alone without harassing? that's very impressive.

i am obviously on the high ground here, so i dont care much about whatever you say, so tl;dr:
1) you could make lumbermill have 1000000 hp, but map makers decided not to
2) you could have a separate space with choppers and lumbermill just like in c6, but map makers decided not to
3) funny how you criticize yamons 'peon rush' when the very first thing you've done that game was use your peons to fight off my archers. i think only liberal is able to spew so much bullshit without getting brain cancer from the cognitive dissonance

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2016, 12:45:38 PM »
The map was made back when there were plenty of pros and newbs alike to play the game of archer friends. If you have a max health lumberill sitting there, you'd have to wait for 20 minutes while killing it because sometimes new players don't know how to leave when they lost or good players Alt-Tab at horrible times.

You can't make a separate space for lumbermill unless you put a hall there with it too, which would change the pace of the game because everyone would start with a 2h. If you isolate your mill you would have less choppers, or start off with too many choppers and take out the resource management part of the game out.

Peon defending is very different than a peon rush. It is the only way to defend a 1h if you are a 2h. That argument doesn't make sense, you cannot compare apples to oranges.

Edit: And there is a space for the mill, it's why the tree line is bent at a 45 degree angle. It's supposed to be naturally protected so that people don't send archers down there. But wood rapers like yourself ( :( ) go through that tree line anyway.
I love this game!

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2016, 12:45:52 PM »
its worth adding that theres another imaginary rule that "true, oldschool" (=bad) archer players like to follow:
you can build barracks ONLY in front of your base. Ive been called a camping bitch for (accidentally) building a barracks below my great hall. Some players like fat~albert build their first 2-4 raxes in the back on the base always and it hasnt ever crossed my mind to whine about gentlemenhood. Possibly because I didnt lose ;)

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2016, 12:47:12 PM »
you cannot compare apples to oranges.
but i can compare peons attacking archers and being used as war weapon to peons attacking archers and being used as war weapon

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2016, 12:49:41 PM »
its worth adding that theres another imaginary rule that "true, oldschool" (=bad) archer players like to follow:
you can build barracks ONLY in front of your base. Ive been called a camping bitch for (accidentally) building a barracks below my great hall. Some players like fat~albert build their first 2-4 raxes in the back on the base always and it hasnt ever crossed my mind to whine about gentlemenhood. Possibly because I didnt lose ;)

I lost fair and square homie. I agreed to the rule change so that we could play a bad ass matchup. It just sucks that you reverted to actually using it. You are now acknowledging that there are gentleman rules then if you're not supposed to build backraxes?

Turtling/playing defensively is part of the game too. I don't see anything wrong with building back raxes. It would probably slow you down because everything would be more spread out and less space for your farms. That's also nowhere near the lumbermill and you open your base up because it's exposed.
I love this game!

Offline MaStA{hR}

  • Grunt
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • Hullo
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2016, 12:50:10 PM »
you cannot compare apples to oranges.
but i can compare peons attacking archers and being used as war weapon to peons attacking archers and being used as war weapon

The intent is different. One is used offensively and one is used defensively...
I love this game!

Offline I hate naggers

  • Ogre Mage
  • ********
  • Posts: 2345
    • View Profile
Re: GGz! Byeee
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2016, 12:52:50 PM »
Turtling/playing defensively is part of the game too. I don't see anything wrong with building back raxes.
well your favourite buddy AA-deadly ragequitted me game 3 in the archers tournament for this very reason. I think u guys need to settle your gentlemen rules out