War2 lessons with Yamon

[Yamon]

here is a video of swift's 15 peon hold fast lust strategy used against

Medivh in a 1v1 match.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

why is that "swift's" strategy when it's a basic common sense power?  "make a couple grunts, wall with a cat, hold at lower than usual peons for faster than usual lust": that strategy has been around for 15+ years only difference is you didn't bring the peon home after scouting 9/11 and i t died, and you went lust at 17 peons, so it was actually an 18 peon hold which isn't even very early at all, in fact it's pretty much what everyone does every single game these days ? ? ?

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

And a standard power in war2's entire history, is chop at 17 peons, hold at 23.

huh?  Not if you stop rushing

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

And a standard power in war2's entire history, is chop at 17 peons, hold at 23.

huh?  Not if you stop rushing

"never chop earlier than 17 peons. That's standard". - 00Joe, 00Logan.

They did not say that you're making that up

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

your tutorial video is called "Swift's 15 peon hold" and you went hold after 18 peons, and the strategy has little to do with swift, I don't know why you're fabricating stuff but you are

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

And a standard power in war2's entire history, is chop at 17 peons, hold at 23.

huh?  Not if you stop rushing

"never chop earlier than 17 peons. That's standard". - 00Joe, 00Logan.

hmmm, viruz going wood at 14 peons

! No longer available

and he didn't even wall and make a cat!

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

I didn't check how many he had at hold, didn't mean to say he went hold @ 15.  But lol dude, you just (fake) quoted two guys saying "never chop earlier than 17 peons" and then i showed you someone good doing just that years ago.  It's almost like you're talking out your ass.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

It's fine it just seems like your video should be called "Standard brief grunts -> power" instead of anything else.  It looked like a very typical strategy.  You're trying to claim it's special because nobody knew you could chop before 17 peons before but you just made that fact up.  Many people for a long time have chopped before 17 peons, esp if they're getting a catapult at home.

[Yamon]

i messed up. They said " Never chop before 17 units while pumping grunts " that's what the standard is for judging a transition into a power. Now what's special about 15 peons is it's the perfect number for the fastest and most efficient first hit of lust. That's the goal of the strategy. It's not the fact that it's a power, it's the DETAILS of the power that are altered. And the fact that I went stronghold with 17 peons in my base, aligns more with a standard power yes, but you don't always have time to count each grunt you have on the map to subtract the food, and see how many peons you actually have. Also, if you wall in from the beginning so you have the luxury of counting peons, then you set yourself up for an immediate counter-dual by the opponent because you're already sealed. So the "15 peon hold" is an approximation. The reason why it's important is because we do not want to stray far too far off from 15, high or low. And that's the purpose of the "15" . So i will not change the video title. Also medivh DID stray far off from 15 in his attempt to fast lust. And if you're fast enough to count all of your peons while microing scouts and choppers, then the more power to you. I personally can't do it. Of course there have been many times were i have had exactly 15 peons, and the result is " OLOLOLOLOL YAMON HAS LUST " - player.

Standard Power:


http://war2.warcraft.org/strategy/cookbooking/1hallpower-lust.shtml

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

i messed up. They said " Never chop before 17 units while pumping grunts " that's what the standard is for judging a transition into a power.

Pretty big difference but thank you for clearing that up.

This is like what you did in the video - chopping at similar peon, holding at same peon.

[Yamon]

i messed up. They said " Never chop before 17 units while pumping grunts " that's what the standard is for judging a transition into a power.

Pretty big difference but thank you for clearing that up.

This is almost exactly what you did in the video.  A couple grunts and mill a bit later because everyone makes scout grunts these days but otherwise the same.

yes but you have to realize the purpose of the 15. 15 is the proponent that is trying to be achieved. Just because the results stray off high or low doesn't mean that you should scrap the 15 goal. In fact, from personal experience; if you're able to hit the 15 mark on the dot while scouting and microing, then you will just hit them with lust even faster, and that's literally the only thing that will be different from 17. Which is GREAT! because that's what we're TRYING TO DO.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

Haha you deleted a bunch of your posts because you were wrong, now nobody will be able to follow the conversation.

[Yamon]

Haha you deleted a bunch of your posts because you were wrong, now nobody will be able to follow the conversation.

i made a mistake. i'm only human. But it doesn't take anything away from my video, or the 15 hold strategy.

And if you really think that it's so flawed and fruitless why don't you try 1v1ing a good player using the cook book and tell me how it goes. 15 peons hold. try to be as close to that goal as possible and tell me the results.

[{Lance}]

If you dig deep enough, there is a video on my twitch showing the 12p lust thats useful for small maps where the opponent will not have enough time to out produce units to kill your 6 lusted ogies.  The premise for "lusting" is that the smaller the map, the fewer peons you can get away with before you run the risk of giving the opponent to much res to out produce your first hit.  Any "fast lust" relies upon your first hit being game deciding.  If it fails.  You fail.  It's also useful for an all sap or just plain ogre rush.  But remember, the fewer p's you have when you go hold or fort,  the further back in res you are putting yourself.  So it doesnt matter how quick you get lust, it wont mean shit if you cant produce units due to a poor economy after your first hit.  Also, the smaller the map, the quicker you can get your units to their base, and thus the more efficient a fast lust can be.  IE:  A fast lust on say,  GSEFW is going to be more powerful than GoW because you'll know where to go sooner and you'll be able to get to your opponent quicker.  Personally, I dont like fast lust on the larger maps.  It's just to risky if things dont go your way on the first hit.  I like options,  and you dont have very many options if your shit fails.  It's a great "cookbook" strat,  but as we all know,  cookbooks also have great counters.  Cookbooks are useful for all the new players however, so there is a place for them.  Thats not to say that cookbooking is bad,  but you're also not going to be in tier 1 if all you can do is read/execute a cookbook strat either.

[Player]

OLOLOL