Author Topic: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet  (Read 62309 times)

Offline Swift

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #195 on: November 03, 2015, 08:26:24 PM »
i wll try to ask medivh at some point how unbelievable you are at pball.  his word will carry a little more heft

Rofl medivh is good at pball? i 5-0'd him on it. I thought he blew?
The official Legend©®™ of Warcraft II.

Offline Swift

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #196 on: November 03, 2015, 08:27:55 PM »
Here's one. How about this.

You've probably played gow way more times than I have played pball, and we've probably both played our repesctive maps near an equal amount so: here's the challenge

I'll bet I can beat you at pball, way before you can beat me at gow

We'll do Gow first, say twenty five games.

Then we play pball twenty five games. If I don't win any, we go back to gow and do another twenty five

then back to pball

lets see who can win more at the other persons map

and this is with me doing NO pball practice other than the roughly 10-20 times i've played it in 15 years

what say u

I got a better idea swift how bout u play Smeagol a bo5 in 45man pball u win ill give you $100 and you get bragging rights.

i don't want your money. i've won league/tourny/special match money before and never collect - ranging from $10 to pimster, and something like a few to several hundred from burnt

but more importantly - why are you thinking i would brag about beating a pballer?
The official Legend©®™ of Warcraft II.

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #197 on: November 03, 2015, 08:28:02 PM »
When did you 5-0 Medivh you haven't even played PBall in how long? Lmao. Also Medivh is a good GOW player and he is a good PBaller. Play him now or play me, accept Toras challenge. I still hear hollow claims and dodging, that's all.

Offline EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • Posts: 6059
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #198 on: November 03, 2015, 08:30:36 PM »

When did you 5-0 Medivh you haven't even played PBall in how long? Lmao. Also Medivh is a good GOW player and he is a good PBaller. Play him now or play me, accept Toras challenge. I still hear hollow claims and dodging, that's all.


Only thing that is hollow is your head.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk

-Administrator of Clan EviL
-Developer (Trivia Development and Analytics)

Offline ~ToRa~

  • Server Admin
  • Death Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 3544
  • The General
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #199 on: November 03, 2015, 08:31:12 PM »
It would make good entertainment surely you can appreciate that. lol
war2 > war3

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #200 on: November 03, 2015, 08:31:32 PM »
Ryu are you even involved in this? No you aren't. Hasn't stopped you from posting your usual irrelevant crap and trolling here though. Do you have nothing better to do you have troll posts that have nothing to do with you? I think the answer is a resounding yes you are that sad.

Offline EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • Posts: 6059
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #201 on: November 03, 2015, 08:39:07 PM »

It would make good entertainment surely you can appreciate that. lol

Smeagol making a fool of himself on the server and forum is all the entertainment I need.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk

-Administrator of Clan EviL
-Developer (Trivia Development and Analytics)

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #202 on: November 03, 2015, 09:12:04 PM »
Yeah I get attacked over the video game I play then what I do for a living and defend myself. You contributing to it when it has nothing to do with you just means you are a sad snake. Ryu your obsession with me is pretty sad.

Offline Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)

  • "The Architect"
  • Global Moderator
  • Dragon
  • *****
  • Posts: 5384
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #203 on: November 03, 2015, 09:14:30 PM »
Does Ryu play 45 man?
    

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #204 on: November 03, 2015, 09:19:27 PM »
Ryu played PBall at one time. He has a very few times in the last so many years. Ryu mostly just plays RPGs every once in a while with friends.

Offline Swift

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #205 on: November 03, 2015, 09:25:16 PM »
p.s. i never 5-0'd medivh. troll bait nobody bit tho
The official Legend©®™ of Warcraft II.

Offline EviL~Ryu

  • (ง︡'-'︠)ง "Bitchin!" ®©℗™
  • Dragon
  • **********
  • Posts: 6059
  • "It's going to be Legen-(wait for it......)-DARY!"
    • View Profile
    • Clan EviL Official Page
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #206 on: November 04, 2015, 01:27:11 AM »

Does Ryu play 45 man?

I prefer woman. [emoji6]


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X using Tapatalk

-Administrator of Clan EviL
-Developer (Trivia Development and Analytics)

Offline Swift

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #207 on: November 04, 2015, 01:29:58 AM »
I would say that pball does have a skillset required.  The amount of micro required to be the best at this would be a lot.  The other thing that goes along with a map like this is to have a single minded focus on learning only one map.  Smeagol's greatest attribute and quite possibly biggest detriment is that he was able to consistently play only this map.  To think that anyone in this era of w2 would have the ability and the patience to accomplish both is pretty egotistical.  As tk has hinted, there aren't enough pball players.  It would be hard to get in the volume required just to achieve the muscle memory to be considered great.  Time is also another issue here.  Does anyone who still plays w2 and has the requisite traits to become great at pball have the time for it?  The answer is closer to no than anything else. 

The skillset for pball is quite small and smeagol has obviously peaked for his ability.  Developing micro to that level would be inefficient if you were a player of many maps.  Because maps require so many other skills, especially bnes, it is not shocking at all that it isn't easy for someone to just randomly play a map for 2 days and beat smeagol.  However, there is no way that a player who specializes in only pball should try to compare themselves to a "gow" player.  While you may have a micro advantage, the peak of being a micro only player is somewhere around BHC-Hawk level.  Is that commendable?  Yes and also probably because hawk is a nice guy.  On the other hand, he is nowhere near the top of any list for being a great player.

What does it all mean?  Nothing really.  Smeagol enjoys pball and is being attacked for no reason.  I ask that "gow" players lay off him.  Let him enjoy w2.  Also for Smeagol, understand that gow is a lot more intricate and requires a lot more of a well rounded skillset.  I came from a customs background and with time, you get to understand that everything has different versions and requirements of how to use a skillset.  My high apm has been an advantage in late games but I do not have your micro skills so it is something I have had to spend time developing.  There is also resource management that comes into play in maps such as these.  In a map as developed and played as gow, you have to be at least very good at all aspects of w2 to be a "great" player.  Understanding what is possible due to amount of units built/build orders/building placements and time requirements takes time.  You also have to pattern map your enemies to win the situations that are normally 50/50 or less for yourself.  Just as I and others can see alot of nuances in gow, there are surely things you do/think that we don't see.  Understanding that, you can have a greater appreciation of how big w2 can be and maybe branch out and give other things a shot.  Perhaps, you'll also find some extra pball players that try to take you up on your challenge.  Embrace the new faces and don't do what the gow community has done to new players.  You can't change the gow community anymore but as the leader of pball you can surely up the fun factor for those new to it and possibly find yourself new challenges and many more games.


Cliff Notes:  Lol why you read this far?

You're absolutely right that pball puds definitely have the potential for great micro skills within the limited spectrum of variable situations that such maps provide. However, you don't need a royal flush to beat one pair. In other words, in order to be the best at something you only need to be a step ahead of the competition, not at the top of some imaginary skill-set ceiling (unless the competition is within par). Of course you already know all of that. Really why I'm saying it is I'm trying to get at what it comes down to which is I think you have a false perception as to the reality of the pball community's skill set. It seems as if you're entirely overrating smeagol's skills. I don't know from where, because unless his UC was extremely impaired in every single game I've ever seen him play (including recent replays), then he has average micro at best for what's possible in pball. Other than being a little quicker than average on the grab, his UC is very weak.

I think you should see for yourself, probably even play with him to get the full feel. He'll most likely beat you of course, but if you don't notice within the first few games that his uc is poor even for that map, then I'll be surprised. My bet is that you'll play him and realize you yourself could beat this guy with very little practice. If you do decide to play, they seem to common the 45 unit map one with mages, peons, archers, balistas, knights, skellies etc. And I can almost guarantee you'll be catching tons of his important units, and getting him beat down to 5-10 units right out of the gate in your first games with very little all time practice under your belt, and almost no warm up that day. And you and I both know, the potential for such a map within that limited spectrum of micro skills and basic defense/attack tactics is pretty high, so if the map were anywhere near "perfected" then a truly great player at it would absolutely smoke other players. I seriously would like you to take this challenge and come back here and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.

Again, I get your point about the potential for such maps maybe being a bit downplayed here, but I just feel like you're mixing the potential up with the reality of where smeagol and other such players skills are currently at for such maps.

I really don't mean to make this about xxxsmeagolxxx so much either, as it really about pball and he's just acting as the spokesman for it. He also just happens to apparently be the best at it, and so he's probably the player who should be analyzed.
The official Legend©®™ of Warcraft II.

Offline xXxSmeagolxXx

  • Ogre
  • *******
  • Posts: 1298
    • View Profile
    • Warcraft 2 PBall Players
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #208 on: November 04, 2015, 01:34:56 AM »
Lol Swift proving he's a fool again. I have better UC than nearly anyone in PBall kid. I can do whatever I want with the units and take average 2x my units in kills in most games. I also win 1v2s, 2v3s, 2v4s, and 3v4s, I have also won two 1v3s. You're a joke and know nothing about my UC as you haven't played me. You judge UC in games where I won and did everything I needed to win. You'd get raped off and you are still dodging and spouting bullshit, that's you though.

Offline Swift

  • Sappers
  • ******
  • Posts: 868
    • View Profile
Re: October 24th $100 GOW Tournament Finals: 00Joe vs Braviet
« Reply #209 on: November 04, 2015, 01:45:26 AM »
Nothing personal - It's just, most good gow player would knock you down to a small fraction of units each game, before you killed them. Then from that point, they'll realize how beatable you are and it's just up to them if they want to apply some extra time to surpass you. Either way, it'll be apparent to them that you aren't that high up on the very small learning curve of pball maps.

Out of your 11 games, how many times did tk get you down to 10 or less units?
The official Legend©®™ of Warcraft II.