Split: Burnt banning Lance, Ganz & Ryu from server/forum

[EF_GameBot]

3. The 'command' hostbot is doing great I believe, anyone 'can' host. However, I would add a constant autohosting bot, with game name like "New players welcome", hosting compstomps such as 2v2, because...

This is incorrect.  For those that havent noticed already,  the GameBot has been disabled by {Lance} and will no longer function until Burnt is removed as a War2 AND Form Admin.  Burnt came online Sunday and out of the blue, banned 3 people (one of them being Lance,  the others were Ryu and Ganz).  The reasonings Burnt gave for banning Lance are based on incidents that happened over SEVEN years ago.  Burnt got all butthurt that Lance stated some facts involving burnt in a thread, and because of that (note, these were facts,  not hallucinations like he wants people to believe),  he got all up in a hissyfit and banned 3 people for reasons which ALL of the current Admin team disagree upon.  Blid, iL, and Mousetopher all agree that the ban was uncalled for and incorrect.  Yet NONE of them have the balls to fix the problem.  So,  until Burnt is removed (since he's the problem),  I will no longer allow anyone other than myself to use my bot.  I released the sourcecode for it, and not a few days later,  Burnt mysteriously bans me from EVERYTHING.  Ya,  this is what you have to look forward to on War2.ru.

Against my own recommendations and wants,  I AM going to be bringing War2.us back.  The only way to stop such a stupid idea is to remove Burnt as an admin.  It's that simple.  If they dont have the balls to remove him.  Then I will (if people decide to make the jump of course).  Besides, he does not need admin capabilities for ANYTHING he does.  Period.  He can do just as much without and admin account, as he does without it.  The only difference,  he cant fuck up good things for War2 like he has done so often in the past and as recently as this week.

[I hate naggers]

Burnt came online Sunday and out of the blue, banned 3 people (one of them being Lance,  the others were Ryu and Ganz)

I see, I didnt know that. Im surprised you havent created a new thread about it.
And all that just when things were getting a little brighter around here, huh...

[EF_GameBot]

Oh I have created a lot of threads about it.  But Burnt keeps deleting them all.  But he cant stop them all.  Eventually someone (like you) is going to read it and then will be able to tell the masses what is REALLY going on behind the scenes that Burnt doesnt want anyone to know about.  This is how he treats people who contribute.  Anyone that releases ANYTHING worth a shit, gets slapped with this type of behavior.  He's done this in the past, and he's doing it again.  I dont care what excuses he comes up with as an excuse,  the timing WAS NOT a coincidence in my eyes and it never will be.  It was deliberate and completely asshole'ish.  He'll eventually delete this one as well, and ban this account.  But the shit is slowly starting to hit the fan and theres not a fucking thing he can do about it.  I always come through on my promises,  and this,  I promise you, IS coming to light.  War2.us will be revived and it will NOT include Burnt in any administrative role.  It wont have any of the server issues that have been plaguing this place for so long,  etc etc yadda yadda.  I dont need to advertise it.  People already know what I'm capable of doing.  The problem is not doing it.  The problem is getting people to leave this place if they continue to allow burnt to run it into the ground.

And to think, all iL and company has to do,  is simply GROW A PAIR and remove the cancer from their admin team and none of this non-sense would even be going down.  If they remove him,  I'll stop war2.us (which will cause a split),  and I'll continue to work on the bot as well as the other items I had plans to do with iL.  But until then.  FUCK YOU BURNT.  Funny,  I've been talking about how he does this type of stuff for like the past couple months because people kept asking me to restart War2.us,  and guess what the reason I gave was?  I gave BURNT as the reason for not doing so because doing any development with him on the team IS POINTLESS.  He always fucks it up.  But I took a chance anyway and developed the bot and guess what happened.  Well............. here you go,  perfect example of Burnt in all his brilliance in action, fucking shit up.  This is why I CONSTANTLY say that doing any development at ALL for war2 is completely useless because the Admin RU group will find a way to fuck it up and it's always because of Burnt.  Every. Single.  Time.  For some ungodly reason,  iL,  Blid, and Mousetopher are scared shitless of Burnt.  WTF is he going to do?  Run off and start a server of his own?  Code a new client?  Fuck ya right.  He's lucky he can even figure out how to turn on the computer let alone produce anything worth a shit.  All he brings to the table is ONE FUCKING DAY PER YEAR.  Thats it.  And thats nothing that anyone else couldnt do.  Example:  Look at the pBall tourneys happening around here.  Was that Burnt?  Fuck no it wasnt.  Any clown can do what Burnt does.  RU DOES NOT NEED BURNT in it's admin team.  Period.  I have been supporting iL for as long as I could,  but this Burnt shit is forcing me to vacate that position and its not something I want to do either.  But I am being forced,  so,  fuck it.  I'll do it god damnit.

So yea,  I am EXTREMELY pissed off.  I came on the forums this past Sunday to post some new updates to the bot source only to find I was banned.  Thats some way to treat contributors lemme tell ya.  I should have just took my own advice and NOT contributed anything because all the will ALWAYS turn out to be completely pointless and now you can all see why.

[Delete mine too]

Burnt came online Sunday and out of the blue, banned 3 people (one of them being Lance,  the others were Ryu and Ganz)

I see, I didnt know that. Im surprised you havent created a new thread about it.
And all that just when things were getting a little brighter around here, huh...

Didn't know either.....

[I hate naggers]

The main argument against war2.us (and its possible revival) were all the shadow bans that happened in the past. But if things are handled the same way on .ru, that will leave many people confused... especially since these things are happening on .ru RIGHT NOW while it's your distant past and things may have changed.

Ganz doesn't even play so it's irrelevant, you were forgiven and cleansed and ryu? Sure, his forum activity is bullshit, but none of the bans (from the SERVER) was necessary. Meanwhile martin18 (on his bennih account, anyone active would know) still walks free with some games under his belt while rage, unfair bans are happening.

So, did everyone from the admin staff know and did nothing about it?

[EF_GameBot]

They all know,  I've spoken to Blid and iL and both of them informed me that they are AGAINST what Burnt did,  but both specifically stated they would NOT "go against burnt".  Supposedly there are lots of threads about it in the Admin forums section, but I cant substantiate any of that since I cant see it for myself.  I've not yet spoken to Mousetopher because she has not replied to anything I sent her.  I think she is in the same boat,  scared shitless of Burnt.  I'd even consider working with Her server instead of starting war2.us,  but she wont reply, so I cant offer that :/

And yes "shadow bans" happen on RU ALOT.  Most, if not all of them come from Burnt and no one ever hears about them.  He also assumed I did the same thing when I hosted it,  but the only person I ever banned was Mage (for not posting a SS) and Burnt (for being a complete asshole like we are witnessing right now).  If I were iL I would have cut Burnts admin balls so fast that even burger king would not have time to make a whopper out of it.

[mousEtopher]

We all disagree with his methods -- making snap judgements in the heat of the moment isn't a good thing. I don't disagree with banning Ryu and Ganz though. You could say that they "should" have been given some kind of penultimate preban warning, but really, how courteous are we obligated to be to people who are themselves so blatantly discourteous? Our current "rules" are lenient to the point of uselessness, they allow for people to spew infinite amounts of shit and tension just keeps building and building, 'til someone finally had enough and made the common sense decision.

In your case Lance, I wouldn't downplay the fact that you were probably provoking him. If Burnt needs to stop overreacting to ancient history, why can't you just let sleeping dogs lie? Admins aren't ignoring it, just trying to defuse the situation on both sides to avoid losing two valuable players. To be honest, your ultimatum that Burnt be demoted and Burnt's ultimatum that you be banned is just a gigantic pissing contest. You both need to chill out, stop talking shit, leave each other alone and focus on doing what you do.

Ganz doesn't even play so it's irrelevant, you were forgiven and cleansed and ryu? Sure, his forum activity is bullshit, but none of the bans (from the SERVER) was necessary. Meanwhile martin18 (on his bennih account, anyone active would know) still walks free with some games under his belt while rage, unfair bans are happening.

To be fair there's a lot of history here, and that does factor in. I honestly don't know any of the details, but I think everyone agrees that Lance did do some heinous shit back in the day and isn't some misrepresented saint. It sounds more like if USA-archer came back in a couple years, started coding some stuff, and after a while we got into it and I banned him.

[I hate naggers]

Well of course iL doesn't agree with the ban, but it's as obvious as the fact that he will do NOTHING about it. iL's lack of balls and conformism shows in every post of his. Mousetopher's main focus is the forum I believe, which leaves blid. I actually mentioned it in one of the older posts that blid's feature making him useful is the ability to make the tough calls when they need to be made, because he's experienced and (mostly) respects the rules and knows the game inside out. Blid, all eyes on you, lil fellow!

source: http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,768.msg10702.html#msg10702

[EF_GameBot]

In your case Lance, I wouldn't downplay the fact that you were probably provoking him.

Lest we all forget the CONTEXT in which I was speaking.  I was defending myself from attacks against me in a thread that I didnt even create that wanted me to start war2.us in.  I simply stated FACTS and point out that BURNT HIMSELF admitted to in a thread long ago on the old War2 forums.  Now for whatever reason, he's saying that the thread he made was all lies?  Is that it?  Now he wants to rescind his own confessions of the past?  Because if that's the problem, then he needs to come right out and say it "I lied..... again".  Like I'd believe a word he says anyway.  He has you all so wrapped up in his lies that you actually believe everything he says without question.  The only real "ding" against me is that I DID use a pw to gain access to the admin forums once to ban GhostNuke (something most people didnt really mind back then anyway and thought it was funny lol) and I did retaliate against Picka, FooNat by bringing in the FBI (that might have been overboard since picka ended up in Denver never to be heard from again, and IDK wtf happened to FooNat, I think they let him go,  all over some bullshit story that Picka and Burnt dreamed up to try to fuck me over,  ya I popped that pimple in a hurry), and I did contact Archers dad, etc etc.  Those are all things we all know I did.  Whats the common thread with them all?  They are all attacks against me.  Not things I started myself.  The rest of the shit going around,  it's all garbage concocted by Picka and/or Burnt.  When I pointed that fact out,  I guess Burnt got his panties in a fuckin wad over absolutely NOTHING.

Ya whatever.  Fuck you Burnt,  I've had enough of your shit.  And this is NO "pissing match".  As far as I'm concerned,  its common sense.  If he gets in the way,  then I'll do my own thing.  Simple as that.  No piss required.  I cant even use my own code without hiding?  WTF kind of bullshit is that.  No,  fuck that.  I'll fucking make my own damn server where I dont have to worry about idiots like Burnt fucking with my ability to use MY OWN WORK.  Thats not a pissing match.  Thats just common fucking sense.  I am pretty mega pissed over this shit,  and for good reason.  I put some good time into the bot refactoring when I KNEW I shouldnt have lifted a fucking finger.  Just ask iL/Ryu/Tupac about how well it was coded.  They all commented on it.  I am just as pissed at Burnt as I am at myself for being stupid enough to not take my own advice (which is to NEVER code anything for RU.  EVER.  Under any circumstances for it will be a wasted effort).

And where does this "Losing 2 good players" mindset come from?  War2 is not "losing" anything other than Burnt as an admin which is not a Loss to begin with, it's a gain.  I'm not going away any time soon.  No.  I'll be improving War2 just like I have been.  It just wouldnt be under the RU "flag" I guess you could call it (unless they get rid of burnt of course).  So war2 isnt "losing" anything.  It's GAINING from my decisions.  Burnt does NOT need to be an admin to host tourneys just like everyone else.  He does NOT NEED to be an admin.  You are looking at it all backwards.

I am NOT angry with you Mousetopher btw.  But you're on the wrong team, so I have no choice but to lump you into the same group as Burnt.  Would you like to fix that problem?  I'd work with you OR iL,  but never with Burnt.  Do you have the nads to cut Burnt out of the equation? 

I do.

[I hate naggers]

and I did contact Archers dad

No problem there, I was already looking up his employer site to screw him over, but I was waiting for the evidence of the DDoS. Well, the attacks have stopped after little, poor archer fucked off, so... good call by you

The rest of the shit going around,  it's all garbage concocted by Picka and/or Burnt.

Well, you forgot about a major thing - fucking up with the_G0ds sister, bringing her to tears and stuff. Low blow if you ask me.
Also let's not forget the famous 'caught at mcdonalds' thread where you produced page-long essays full of lies, as was proven later on in that thread. Come on, don't present yourself as a Saint Mary that likes revenge with quotes like "They are all attacks against me.", nobody's saint here!

edit: but obviously I am all against the bans that took place, especially on the server and I hope some action will be taken. This is the shit we don't really need. I think burnt should end up with a final warning and ~~1 month suspension of his admin powers (next violation = no admin at all), that's a good middleground.

[EF_GameBot]

Well, you forgot about a major thing - fucking up with the_G0ds sister, bringing her to tears and stuff. Low blow if you ask me.
Also let's not forget the famous 'caught at mcdonalds' thread where you produced page-long essays full of lies, as was proven later on in that thread. Come on, don't present yourself as a Saint Mary that likes revenge with quotes like "They are all attacks against me.", nobody's saint here!

edit: but obviously I am all against the bans that took place, especially on the server and I hope some action will be taken. This is the shit we don't really need. I think burnt should end up with a final warning and ~~1 month suspension of his admin powers (next violation = no admin at all), that's a good middleground.

Hmm,  Claw has a point.  I did have an instance where I was instigator.  When Swift asked me for SS in a game we were watching.  Good call there.  As for Dugz,  he had it comin,  he threatened me with the exact same thing, so I beat him to the punch.

Claw 1
Lance 0 in the "he's innocent" dept.

I guess me not being a saint doesnt bode well for Burnt's cause   He should probably pick on someone that IS a saint maybe that wont retaliate?  hahah.  I crack me up.

As for your proposal though.  I couldnt agree to such terms personally because it would go against my own advice.  NEVER code anything for RU for as long as Burnt and LDir control the domain/decisions, etc.  I believe Ldir has long since been eliminated (well, more like replaced) by iL (something I am very glad happened)  and that leaves just Burnt to go.

[mousEtopher]

edit: but obviously I am all against the bans that took place, especially on the server and I hope some action will be taken. This is the shit we don't really need. I think burnt should end up with a final warning and ~~1 month suspension of his admin powers (next violation = no admin at all), that's a good middleground.

That seems reasonable, but I think we all know it would be a wash. Burnt's just as pissed as Lance is; question his decision (let alone punish him for it) and it's going to be TK all over again. I like Burnt, everyone benefits from his contributions and commitment, and I appreciate the frustration of having to deal with someone you have bad blood with on an ongoing basis, but I do have to side with Lance here. He didn't do anything out of line, he's been in good standing for a long time now, banning him based on a personal grudge is wrong and should be reversed. And aside from being biased, this decision is actively harming the server because the hostbot's down, which he had to know was going to happen. What's really needed is for Burnt to take the high road.

I am NOT angry with you Mousetopher btw.  But you're on the wrong team, so I have no choice but to lump you into the same group as Burnt.  Would you like to fix that problem?  I'd work with you OR iL,  but never with Burnt.  Do you have the nads to cut Burnt out of the equation? 

I really like the idea of working on server enhancements in collaborative open source environment, like you talked about here. This would ideally be everyone with programming know-how contributing to one master project, not people splitting off into individual factions. I think it's a pipedream though, since no one trusts/wants to work with anyone else. :P

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

This is the shit we don't really need. I think burnt should end up with a final warning and ~~1 month suspension of his admin powers (next violation = no admin at all), that's a good middleground.

A suspension?  He doesn't want to be involved if these people are here, period.

A few times Burnt has come in here and banned people without an officially approved reason and without checking with anyone.  You can make the case that it's like a rain coming in to wash the trash away.  Already the forums are much better without Ganz and Ryu here.  And if we were a community that didn't have specific rules that people are supposed to follow, then banning the problem people would be fine.  That's another way to run a community.  No specific rules, but if we judge you have stepped out of line, we can take action as we see fit.  However, since we do have all these rules posted, I feel like that's kind of a promise by us to moderate by those rules and not ad hoc. 

If we were to switch moderation modes, then, Claw, I'll immediately be dishing out warnings whenever you say "nigger" regardless of what the poll says.  But anyway, I would reinstate Ganz and Ryu even if we are changing how we moderate, even if it means they're rebanned in short order.

I don't believe or agree with anything Lance says about that fight in the past, and it really bothered me when he gave his version that I believe to be lies/delusions.  It bothered Burnt too, which is why the ban happened.  But that's not smart management imo.  Lance has his version and I don't like it but it's so much better to just leave that past in the past, if, in the present, Lance is playing clean games, contributing to the server, and so on.  Burnt's question is why did Lance ever get unbanned in the first place and I don't really know, but given that he's been a positive member of the community for awhile I don't think banning him is productive.

I apologize to the banned players because, right now, my first priority is to keep everyone together and happy and I don't want to give up on that yet.  If all attempts at that are exhausted then it will be time to consider other alternatives.  In iL's eyes, Burnt is still the leader, so I don't know for sure what alternatives would be available.

[I hate naggers]

And what, if I say justifying random, rage bans is wrong and I have to support lance here, I will be banned too? And everyone will be okay with it? I really can't blame lance for starting his own server, especially given the circumstances - he just released a solid piece of work, open source, and was hosting a hostbot for ru.

Martin18 keeps playing while you're banning the host bots for fucks sake.

And what are you blathering about? Some stealth switching moderation rules? If so, just SAY it, ANNOUNCE. And then make the bans public - you have nothing to hide. Why the hell are you saying it's acceptable to ban a bunch of people and cover it up? There's really one good course of action here, but I already see you won't take it.

You will do your thing, lance will do his, and I'm afraid I'll have to side with him for the first time in my life.

[Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart)]

I don't think you processed my post correctly.  Take some more time with it.