Author Topic: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)  (Read 8502 times)

Offline pianolarva

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Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« on: June 14, 2024, 07:16:52 PM »
Now it's on the correct forum.


Main changes:

- Walling will be done with actual walls (hopefully, but I don't think it will happen).
- Modifications to make every unit/spell/upgrade useful (biggest changes are about archers, bloodlust, healing, and blizzard. The rest are smaller adjustments)

That's about it. Stats are almost the same so it'll be easy to get into. Unused spells and archers will come into play.


Detailed info:

UNITS and BUILDINGS:
  • ARCHERS (+): 0 damage, 11 piercing damage (previously it was 3 and 6) – They were too weak before (mainly because of their low fire rate). They are better in combat, even though footmen will still clearly win 1v1. Meet them at the coastline. There's also an advantage they have when they attack in numbers: you can target one footman with 5 archers, but 5 footmen can't go after one archer (tested 7v7 against computer and archers win). Damage could be a bit more (prev 0 9).
  • Footmen (-): 5,3dmg (6,3) 1armor (2) – had to, reducing dmg is the way to help archers (Increasing archers dmg even more, caused problems). Ballistas go to 100hp (should be at 95), dk and peons becoming barely more resistant. These changes should only be noticeable against archers, so its not a big change.
  • Knights (-):  6,4dmg (8,4) 2armor (4). New addition: Knights start with 80hp (previously 90). Paladin Training adds 10hp. – Ratio against footmen is the same (footmen slightly better than before). Hp at 70 and 80? There would be less pals around, less bloodlust.
  • Ballistas: samey (-10hp)
  • Gryphons/Dragons (+): 120hp, 20dmg (16), 2000 gold. – They were too weak for being the most expensive unit.
  • Walls (+): x4 reduced building time, it's fast but not immediate. Building cost now 50gold 25wood (20 10) – Note that walls aren't repairable.
  • Towers: samey (dmg is at 1 12)
  • Buildings: same, but they may get a .75 - .87 hp reduction in the future
UPGRADES and SPELLS:
  • Footman armor upgrade (-): +1 instead of +2  –  to match the dmg upgrade. I also fixed an inconsistency in which the first upgrade would help footmen against arrows, unlike the rest. Now armor upgrades don't defend against arrows. It's also relevant for skeletons, so that they have some power.
  • Footman dmg upgrade (-): +1 instead of +2.
  • Archer arrow upgrades (+) : +3 both (prev +1) – It should be +2 to make it similar to what the foot upg does. But like ballistas upgrades, I think it should be a bit more.
  • Ballista upgrades (+): +25 both (+15), Gold 800 and 2000 for the second upgrade – no one used it. Each upgrade gave extra 25%dmg. You needed many cats to get value out of it, and I don't think that ever happened. This is closer to where it should be.
  • Ranger training (+): +20hp – so that you get a 4th shot if knights reach you.
  • Ranger scouting (+): 500 gold (1500)
  • +1Range upgrade (+): 500 gold.
  • Berserker Regeneration (+): 500 gold. – if only it healed 10hp, it would be somewhat balanced against the +3 ranger upgrade, but it doesn't.
  • +3dmg for rangers (+): 1500 gold – It's not as strong as I thought, so I'll leave it in the game.
  • Holy Vision: same. Could be lowered a bit.
  • HEALING (+): From using full mana to heal 40hp, to healing 80hp – now 3mana x 1hp. It's powerful now. At 2xhp it would be more balanced against BL, but I decided to make it worse because pals could wait and regenerate until healing became stronger than BL, and orcs wouldn't have a good counter. So now humans are worse until BL runs out. It uses autohealing to avoid this problem: healing takes an animation, and you can only heal 40hp each time you cast it, so in battle you would heal very little (even at 1xhp you would have to heal many times. It just doesnt work).
  • Exorcism (+): now you can kill dk with 120mana instead of 240, and a skeleton at 160 (2mana x hp) – It has to be lower than 3, otherwise you'd rather heal your units than use it against skeletons.
  • BLOODLUST (-): fixed at x2. 100mana (50). Increased building time to 200 (100) equal to healing – It still is the most powerful spell in the game. Balance between a spell that increases damage and a spell that heals dmg should be easy (if BL increases 50%, increase heal to match that) but to have both equal while around 100-150mana isnt.
  • Runes: same – Mana cost should not be cheaper because it would be used all over the battlefield. At 150 you would have ogres using it on gold mines like blizzard.
  • Fireball: (+): 80mana (100) – Dmg could be increased if blizzard happens to always be a better option.
  • Death Coil (+): 80mana (100) – I think it did little damage for its cost, like -45hp to a knight for 100 mana.
  • Slow: same – While slowing attack speed of enemies is powerful, hasted units can choose their matchup.
  • Polymorph (+): mana 150.
  • Inviz: same
  • Flame Shield: same
  • BLIZZARD/DECAY (-): mana 100 (25), doing less damage. – You used it so much on the gold mine, that now it's basically just for that. It's just two showers that will only kill some peons and injure most of them. To have the same effect it had, you'll need two mages or finish them off with runes. It's no longer useful against buildings, ogres, dragons, there are other options against that. The correct fix would be decreasing the ridiculous range too, but that's not an option.
  • Haste: same
  • Raise dead (+): Skeletons have 80hp, 6dmg, 4pierDmg, 0armor (pals are 90,6,4,2)
  • Unholy Armor: same
  • Whirlwind: same
I barely changed gold costs even though they deserve new numbers.
Tested and somehow Unholy Armor stays at 100mana


Download:

I applied all these changes into the following maps attached below. Then you just go to the War2Mod channel on the left panel, and play it with the "use map settings" option.
- There's Great White North (GWN5)
- And Two Garden (a KPud similar to GOW) without the newest updates (healing at 2, walls)
- Also added both maps against the computer to test it.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 09:49:43 PM by pianolarva »

Offline Pandaprewmaster325

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2024, 07:05:12 PM »
Are walls even that good? I get they can block the path but you need to construct each little segment right? Damn that would require a good amount of work on the player side.
Today warcraft is not the warcraft it used to be , lets stick to what made warcraft warcraft! ORCS AND HUMANS

Offline Pandaprewmaster325

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2024, 07:52:40 PM »
Am I missing something? What changed?
Today warcraft is not the warcraft it used to be , lets stick to what made warcraft warcraft! ORCS AND HUMANS

Offline pianolarva

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2024, 05:43:33 PM »
@Pandaprewmaster325 They are basically 120hp.

@Mistral My wishlist for the trig editor. I see it as a tool for balancing, not for creating new games.
- rework/improvements on berserker upgrades.
- can fire rate of units change?
- bloodlust fixed at lower values.
- autoheal is fixed at 5manaxhp. Lower?
- spell ranges

Offline Mistral

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2024, 07:09:15 PM »
autoheal cost is actually depends on greater heal spell cost, you can change it with triggers.
greater heal is default not finished spell by blizzard, autoheal actually works on its code.
and cost of 5 is also actually default set by blizzard.
in original it wasnt auto though, but it seems like it was AOE heal, but there is not orig code for that, they do not maked it to the end, dunno why.

there is also trigger that can fix blood onto honest x2 instead of x1.5-x3, its switch place of armor calculation
« Last Edit: August 31, 2024, 07:11:33 PM by Mistral »

Offline pianolarva

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2024, 08:13:05 PM »
You are so knowledgeable about this game. AOE makes sense, less clicking, but maybe was troublesome to implement.
Yes, I meant BL lower than x2. I'm using it.

Offline Pandaprewmaster325

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2024, 09:53:19 AM »
You are so knowledgeable about this game. AOE makes sense, less clicking, but maybe was troublesome to implement.
Yes, I meant BL lower than x2. I'm using it.
No perhaps they realized healing was too strong if aoe? Or maybe the healing value was so abysmal to be aoe?
Today warcraft is not the warcraft it used to be , lets stick to what made warcraft warcraft! ORCS AND HUMANS

Offline dannyldd

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Re: Wall Balance mode (multiplayer)
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2024, 08:47:07 PM »
i see now. I couldn't remember the mod thread, sorry buddy.

Good job with this stuff around. I hope more people can join your mod, since its cool to see something different.