Typical Holiday User Numbers

[tk[as]]

It's a lot more than "2 or 3 spaces" ..

[Harrywangs]

Maybe if you try hosting it would have different results? Maybe not.

New people understand they can host themselves, right? I'm not sure why that never seems to happen. It doesn't need to be 3s/4s. Duda's league was probably the best chance you had. Did a lot of new players play in that? I don't think I saw many. Your stream was up when you played in them, right? Why didn't they come and play?

It's almost like saying new people want to play faster or fastest on GOW"EF" map. That's great and all but nobody plays that. That's the same as the map issue. Nobody plays those maps. Beggers can't be choosers sometimes. I'm not sure there is any solution to that unless you get a ton of new people at once. And in order to do so, you need to fix the initial issues mentioned above first.

[Player]

Player, what about chops, walls, towers/zeps/dks. Really any sight that goes past the original resolution's size? That all factors in.

I agree with you that there are differences or perceived advantages.  I’m just saying they’re immaterial.  No game is going to be won, lost, or impacted because of it.  Auto lusting with macros or whatever is way more of an advantage than the resolution change and even that is not really a big deal.

[Harrywangs]

What would you consider a perceived advantage that is not an absolute advantage? Many high-level games have a higher potential to be won or lost by 1 square. And even your average games are affected as well.

Here are some examples:

1) The reaction time I have to pull my peons before they get dked is much longer than it would be without the resolution change. (Assuming you have a tower/zep/unit or something that would have sight of it in the first place; for all of these)

2) The reaction time I have to lust my ogres because lusted ogres are already headed towards me is advantageous. That is almost equal to macro lusting, as it all has to do with time.

3) If someone is about to sap you, you have time to put an ogre/wall between 2 buildings or prepare peons to rep quicker on buildings like a barracks that takes very little repping to survive before the 2nd sap. Or just reclose.

4) Walls- while generally insignificant, players who are dead can wall up expos (no fog required), rep their pards, and/or constantly scout. This makes it easier to realize where the peon is.

5) Something as simple as being towered. Say you are being towered below 4. You can see it better, although it's commonly missed. If my view is a bit above the tower, I won't see that. With the higher resolution view, you would be able to see it easier because it will be in your vision. So, hypothetically, we could be at the same place on our screens, per se, yet one can see it and the other cannot.

While they could possibly be considered perceived advantages because of fog of war. Anything that has sight, I would consider these quantitative advantageous. Let's just say I've missed a lot of dks/mages in my day.

[Szwagier]

most of that what you said its not about how much square you see, but how you see mini map, if you see it perfect, you will see all,if you see dk coming from 18x14 or 14x14  doesnt matter its allready to late , you will not have time to pull it, mini map is more important than normal map


still we havent got pro scene(and never had) to talk about it, arent we playing most for fun? ofc talking shit that your ally suck is part of community and you can find it in all multiplayer games, doesnt matter its new or old game

[~ToRa~]

Shout out to the 24/7 clan was cool seeing Pimpster, Gyanyu, and Wadju playing this season like they do every year.

[Harrywangs]

It's exactly how much square you see on the NON-mini map. You see more details in the regular view. Mini map shows a color; not a dk, ogre, sap, etc. You are looking at the actual gameplay (regular view) screen the majority of the time. If you disagree, I will say, what do the vast majority of the players look at? Maybe not the elite, like you. (what about tower wars and close area battles?)

This has basically "rebalanced" or patched the game, as referenced before. I am 100% more likely to see what is in my direct field of vision than a blip of a color on the mini map. Especially if you have multiple players at one place at a time. Then the mini map is basically useless, especially in mid.

What you are saying is, for lack of a better term, a "workaround". You are basically just saying, you had 2 options, now you have 1 still. Or now, one is better than the other depending on which resolution you have compared to no new resolution option. So those who don't have it, MUST use mini map more than those who do. It's just easier to see something in your direct view than a small color on a small map. Minim map does not show what unit is there either.

Give most people an extra second or 5 (if dk is standing there waiting, out of view) and I get more peons saved when I pull them. That is a big factor.

Yes, we play for fun but many of us enjoy good competition in order to maintain that fun. Especially the higher skilled players. Michael Jordan doesn't want to play basketball with high school kids on a daily basis for multiple games. But high school kids want to play with Michael Jordan every game and are disappointed when they cannot.

It's easy for lessor players to want to play with high skilled players and be carried. It's harder and more frustrating for higher skilled players to have to carry every single game.

[Harrywangs]

No hotty this year. 

[Szwagier]

I understand your view, but player with higher view got harder to scroll since he got bigger screen(i had it problem when i started playing with HD) and must more important thing community wanted it

people voted some people say no, some people say idc, but most people said yes, if most people said no we should not use it
for new people using HD will be much easier than 14x14
for new people using custom hotkeys will be easier than using basic
we should use it special for new people who played for example warcraft 3 but they want play warcraft 2, in warcraft 3 you can do everything with hotkeys(move them, reassign what you want), you wont bring noobs with basic warcraft 2 cause tk want play "real" warcraft 2
most new people want play humans and archers

[Harrywangs]

I didn't think about the scrolling and/or mouse sensitivity change. But I guess since you are doing something different than the original by choice, it's something one just has to deal with since you've made the conscious decision.

I always take votes with a grain of salt just because like 10 people respond on these things. As you can tell, the majority of this conversation has been just us, lol.  But when the vote goes my way, I don't complain about that. So, I have to realize it goes both ways.

I don't think there is anything you can do about it at this point to be honest. I mostly don't like deviating from the original game because then you cannot compare apples to apples in skill level. Especially from older players or older players who come back or something. I guess that's more of a stubborn old man pride thing. (even though I'm not even a top player to compare to others) It's just respecting the game for me. I do see the value in having more functions for newer players though. I'd be curious what fortheking and a couple others think.

Anyways, the original topic, well was holiday users but the real issue about how to acquire more people. I'll start a new thread at this point.

[Szwagier]

So what if someone back after years and it will be new Warcraft 2? If I didnt Play dota2 for one year game will be diffrent for me and its my problem that I need learn new gameplay

[Harrywangs]

I don't disagree. But those games have thousands of users. Here, each player's opinions have a greater weight than other games at this point due to the lack of users giving them a higher influence. You could hypothetically give it a percentage if you really wanted to.

You also have people who have been playing for 10-25 years who are holding this game above water. It's best not to piss them off. Then you also could have people who come back and now they see something they don't like anymore, and it makes them not want to play again.

Yes, we want to move forward with the new, but we cannot afford to piss off the old either. It's like walking on a tight rope.

[Player]

I didn't think about the scrolling and/or mouse sensitivity change. But I guess since you are doing something different than the original by choice, it's something one just has to deal with since you've made the conscious decision.

I always take votes with a grain of salt just because like 10 people respond on these things. As you can tell, the majority of this conversation has been just us, lol.  But when the vote goes my way, I don't complain about that. So, I have to realize it goes both ways.

I don't think there is anything you can do about it at this point to be honest. I mostly don't like deviating from the original game because then you cannot compare apples to apples in skill level. Especially from older players or older players who come back or something. I guess that's more of a stubborn old man pride thing. (even though I'm not even a top player to compare to others) It's just respecting the game for me. I do see the value in having more functions for newer players though. I'd be curious what fortheking and a couple others think.

Anyways, the original topic, well was holiday users but the real issue about how to acquire more people. I'll start a new thread at this point.

Just want to point out that being reasonable and open minded goes against the spirit of the original war2.

[Harrywangs]

Debates and conversations are better than arguments and insults. Believe it or not.