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61

Server.War2.ru / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing

« on: December 11, 2020, 01:51:56 PM »

join us, play with us, you will got one vote

Thanks, but no. I won't joining you guys, because it's pointless. My APM is around 70-90 and I remember that everyone were playing on Fastest speed. You will rush my base with 30 Ogre-mages with BL before I build Ogre Mound.

You have right. I should shut up if I'm not playing multi.

I call people like you "thrower of ideas" (...)

Yep, that's me

Thanks for these code explanations. I have never seen War2 code so I didn't know that mana is a byte variable (max value looks like byte but I didn't think about it).

Well I didn't get your point with Circle of Power summoning deamons and with heroes, that's why I threw ideas with another heroes implementation. Just ignore it

62

Server.War2.ru / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing

« on: December 11, 2020, 10:15:34 AM »

W2 is not a micro game, units havent got 600 hp like in w3,  heros will do nothing in late game,since you can polymorph heros,  in multiplayer custom maps will be fun, but not in normal games

In late game you can gew few bases so your heros will do nothing

Why you guys want make w3 on w2? Most of you didnt play multiplayer

Last time I played War2 multiplayer was more or less 10 years ago, but I was always too slow to be good enough As far as I remember every single match ends with few groups of Ogre-Mages + few DKs. Maybe that's the reason why people like iL wants to add something to this game.

I think noone wants to make War3 on War2. War3 is ugly mix between RTS and RPG but here these guys want to add special units, not supreme heroes with ultimate abilities, items and leveling up.

63

Server.War2.ru / Re: War2Mod (War2 with triggers) beta testing

« on: December 11, 2020, 03:15:00 AM »

Ballistas/Catapults repairs, sheeps, portal etc. sounds very nice  Interesting ideas guys, but I'm not sure what's the point with Circle of Power (I don't think that Daemons will be useful, especially after increasing archers/trolls attack) and with heroes.
The core problem with using heroes in common gameplay is that they looks exactly the same as normal units, so in longer matches it will be hard to tell where heroes are or if enemy is using any hero or not. Maybe modify "anything" with heroes sprites? Or at least give every hero some graphical highlight below them, just like War3 heroes have.

I know it's your mod and I don't want to force anything... just a different idea for heroes: new building for hiring heroes, three heroes per race, every hero has some unique graphic change, every hero will have hp regeneration and immunity to polymorph, and only one hero can be hired in one match. This way heroes will be noticeable and they will be a single special unit with special abilities.
For Humans it might be:
- Alleria (archer);
Basic skill: long range (7)
Skill to research after Keep: Invisibility on self (sneaking)
Skill to research after Castle: upgrade to range +2 (so she will have longer range than any other unit in game)
- Turalyon (paladin);
Basic skill: healing
Skill to research after Keep: blessing just like you wrote previously (he blocks some damage for all allied units, including magic damage)
Skill to research after Castle: ?
- Kurdran (gryphon rider);
Basic skill: none (this hero is flying/his base hp is only 100)
Skill to research after Keep: gryphon's armor (+150 to hp)
Skill to research after Castle: Whirlwind (gryphon's mighty wings can foment a whirlwind)

For Orcs:
- Korgath (grunt)
Basic skill: vampiric aura (just like you implemented already: all allied units in range of 5 will be dealing 2 additional damage and will be healing themselves to 2 hp)
Skill to research after Keep: Prevent Loss (just like you implemented already)
Skill to research after Castle: ?
- Dentarg (ogre-mage)
Basic skill: ?
Skill to research after Keep: Summoning Daemons
Skill to research after Castle: maybe fornication that you planned for Cho'gall? What exactly fornication should do?
- Teron (death knight)
Basic skill: starts with Death Coil, Raise Dead and immunity to Exorcism
Skill to research after Keep: aura of creating skeletons! (just like you implemented already)
Skill to research after Castle: mana upgrade +200 mana points (that will increase mana limit from 255 to 455 for this hero)

So if you will keep your hero alive and invest on him/her you will have powerful and unique specialist.
[Please note that above heroes description is just my idea; it's not what iL, Oragorn and Mistral did for this mod]

Guys, if you want we can discuss about it or just ignore it  Anyway, good job with this mod, it's very impressive   

64

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 22, 2020, 12:14:45 PM »

Nice end credits

Did you watch the final video? Otherwise, you can accidentally skip it.

I saw one video that ends the main story and second video with end credits (where you are rude to Vova ). Is there something more?

There 12 hidden secret missions inside alaunter try to complete them. Last 4 of it its another campanign (inside of alaunter campanign yes). All missions very hard. Good luck.

About allied non rescuable AI. I has created it long ago. U will see some in alaunter2.

12 hidden missions? Any tips how to find it?

65

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 22, 2020, 11:38:32 AM »

My last progress:

11. I had to use tricks I know against AI to deal with this mission. Playing fair was not enough, so I

Spoiler

used Gryphons to damage enemy buildings to lure their workers. Next I was killing workers and damaging building until AI looses all it's gold. That way I deal with green and blue enemy. I'm not sure if that was expected from player.

Spoiler

12. Nothing to note here. Fast and ok mission.

Spoiler

13. For me, that mission was still easier than mission 8, but far more complex. It was difficult, I had to try few times and even slow down my game speed to manage Mages one by one (I'm not as fast as you guys ) but I did it! There was a lot of  around me at the end

Honestly I am impressed of what you have done here guys. That missions has a lot different gameplay elements like gathering wood with transporting workers, Dwarven Squads, Gryphons, ships, oils... wow! So many things in single map. Nice work guys 

Spoiler

14. That mission was very easy. I was prepared for a tough battles and making some plans like in previous mission... but it was simple, lol 

Spoiler

Nice end credits


I would like to share with you with some ideas for next campaigns, maybe you will like it

• AI Ally. I have never seen War2 source code, don't know what you guys are exactly doing (you were changing some splash damage mechanics so probably you did that in War2 original code), so I don't know how difficult it might be, but I think it could be nice to add Ally version of AI. The differences between Ally and Rescue Active:
  1) AI Ally cannot be rescue by player (obviously)
  2) AI Ally treats every player and every other allied AI as it's allies (Rescue Active AIs fights with each other)
  3) AI Ally has a shared vision with player
  It might by interesting for a maps where player shares base with an ally or in case when AI Ally has a huge base and army, plays passive, but if it will be taken/rescued by player it would give advantage over enemy.
• Unique heroes but still based on normal units. The idea is to give heroes hp regeneration (reuse trolls regeneration mechanic  ) and one/two skills that normal unit doesn't have. For example: Footman hero might have mana and Fireball and Flame Shields spells (in your story he might be a battlemage or something like that). Mage/Death Knight hero might have doubled mana points, someone else might be faster, etc. Good thing that you make heroes resistanted to Polymorph!
• Maybe few maps for orcs?  I was always "for the Horde"  

Overall great job guys, it was fun 

66

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 13, 2020, 05:31:35 AM »

Great 

I'm interested in both acts I can try multiple characters and you will decide which sounds good. Let me know what quotes and what personalities my characters will have and I will do my best 

EDIT:

My progress in Act 1:

Missions:
9.Was more fun than previous labyrinth map, wasn't hard, one moment was tough (red orcish base) but overall that mission was a pure relax after previous one. I think in this map you made two possible paths to reach the goal - nice idea.

Spoiler

10. Mages are back! Free mines with tons of gold so player could easily macro and attack with huge army. That mission was easy and fun  I'm not sure why orange ally was there. He didn't do anything important, Taine just stand in his base (white was Passive Allied). I just ignored orange and Taine but I think your intention here was different.
Nice one with Karass. He was aggressive and attacked with gryphon hammers. Modified Gul'dan unit, am I right?

Spoiler

67

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 13, 2020, 05:01:53 AM »

Hi again, sorry, here is a better link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uyj51Y3BJsRYq27nVj8G5UoD-2nRbveW/view?usp=sharing

Here you will have my voice records and some sprites that I promised to send you from my old mod. Can you download it now?

I did the same trick with Blacksmith Nice!

68

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 13, 2020, 02:06:19 AM »

I disagree necrolyte is the worst unit, and i never do them, skeletons weak, unholy a bit better but ai will switch target without unholy if there is more than one unit

I think you never played w1 online? Archers cats op


Also humans are good in diffrent map, special water maps, when orc player just cant attack non stop with lust

Yes, I played only campaigns in War1 and never online. My point is to add Necrolyte as new unit for War2 and make them (and Skeletons) useful. For example let Necrolyte be available in early game (with Great Hall). Give them three spells: Death Coil (researched), Raise Dead and Haste. Change Raise Dead cost to 25 mana and buff Skeletons to 60Hp and dmg 3-6.
In late game add new upgrade "Upgrades Into Death Knight" to transform every Necrolyte into Death Knight (same way as Ogres -> Ogre-Mages). Death Knights will be able to learn next three spells, so the late game will stay the same.
What is more, this change will be lore friendly, cause orcish Necrolytes/Warlocks changed into Death Knights in the lore 

About War1 - to be honest, I like only roads in this game Like you said Archers and Catas are op and later mass Warlocks/Wizards to summoning Daemons/Water Elementals.

69

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 12, 2020, 06:15:16 PM »

who would make army of skeletons and waste lot of time, instead just rape enemy with dnd?

That's were I was talking about new units  Necrolyte from War1 would fit here for orcs, as a magician unit in early orc gameplay. Imagine army of Grunts and one/two Necrolytes behind them to raise corpses after a battle with humans. But without new units I agree that it could be very difficult to find this spell useful with DK. Maybe in case when you are waiting for new Ogres but still DnD seems to be a better choice.

humans are a macro race, lusting takes focus and time, humans have more time to focus on expanding and macro.

Just like Equinox said - that's simply not true. Humans are not a macro race, they have same economic as orcs. They are just a lot weaker in later game and you have to have 2x bigger army to deal with Ogre Mages or just clicks a lot faster than your opponent to kill all Ogres with Blizzard before he figure it out.

In 1990's Blizzard company didn't care about balance for War1 and War2. They just released War1, one year later War2, and next they focus on Starcraft.

70

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 12, 2020, 10:56:16 AM »

Changing mana cost is the worst thing to ever do, peoples have learn to play with a specific timing for over 25 years...

If lusting cost an ogers 50 mana and 50 mana take 1 minutes to grow up, then if you change the mana cost you will also have to change the duration time it take to grow that new cost of mana to keep that same timing peoples have learn over the last 15 years.

Other then that, peoples will be all fucked up about timing and it will change the entire meta of the game.

But Cel is definitily a pro player who already know that, it's obvious. 

If we want to balance both race equal, we must fix human, cuz at least if we fucked up, it will have almost no repercution at all since we all play with orcs.

Trying to fix orc to balance human is the worst thing to do, ORC is the barre, human is the race we want to raise at that barre.

Agree. For orc I would just do something with Raise Dead to make this spell useful. Maybe reduce this spell cost to 25 mana and maybe Skeletons should be have Grunt/Footman stats and speed attack? And that's all, in my opinion, with orcs.

Everything else should be fixes for human to make this race playable against Bloodlust.

71

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 12, 2020, 09:42:07 AM »

Spoiler

Although not all the spells are used (it is true and that can totally be fixed by tweaking mana costs there and there), all units are used and needed to win. Just because you need many more ogres than trolls to win does not mean trolls are not the best and quickest option to defend a wall sometimes or fight off a drake or prevent repairs... War2 is not a game about managing your army like starcraft. In war2 managing the space/grid is pretty much all that matters and catapults are the only units that can out-range towers and juggernauts you remove them from the game and you have almost no answers to both these threats...

Then again this is why we should keep these balance patches and updates to map making, so that we can have both the original maps and balance and custom balance maps experiments running at the same time and players can choose what they want to play that way...

War2 is a chess like game because the Grid plays like a real time chessboard. Place your tower one tile off and you loose, run into a chokepoint without thinking and you loose this is what war2 is all about. War2 could be played with no races at all and basic shapes in place of all the fancy looking stuff it would still be an interesting game to play and watch. And no Bloodlust is not that much stronger that you can win against a better player than you if he is going humans otherwise braviet would never loose to u8 or lone when they play human and go late game. It does not matter if you have lust if you fail at  managing the space/grid you still loose, you place your stuff wrong you loose...

Bloodlust is op yes but we are not talking swarm host kind of op here, if you ever were playing sc2 back when that stupidity was a thing... It does not overshadow everything else so much that the rest is totally being thrown aside once you reach it. Deathknights are the ultimate unit of the late game not lusted ogres.  .

I get your point now and maybe you have right. Still balance between races is broken, but maybe like you said, simply mana cost tweaks can fix it.
First of all Healing should heals better, maybe even 1 mana for 1 hitpoint. Maybe also Polymorph should be cheaper? I would like to see some buffs for Raise Dead and Slow to see these spells in action sometimes.
Anyway, good discussion Cel, have a nice day 

72

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 12, 2020, 08:16:10 AM »

Chess and Go has been played for ages and feature exactly the same pawns on both sides war2 is not very far from that actually.

I don't want to make a war here like you guys But for me War2 is very far from being "a chess type of game", mostly because two races are not equal.
War2 is a game where one race dominates second. If you will make dual between two players at the same skill level, one will play as orc, second as human, there is no chance for human player to wins vs orc player. Maybe if they will be limited to Keep/Strongholds, than yes, human player can win a match, but with full upgrades Bloodlust just destroys everything.

Warcraft 2's unique beauty relies on its simplicity: every unit in in war2 is useful,

Archers/trolls are in most cases useless. Same thing with Skeletons. Catas sometimes are useful... sometimes.
Most spells are useless.

Stop wanting to make warcraft 2 another game please...

Rebalancing patch could help War2 to get new players, but I understand that if someone played this game for 25 years than he wouldn't accept any changes. Maybe War2.ru should have two version of this game: old and balanced?

On the same note Starcraft and Wc3 have about the same number of units per race than war2, except that in one game you will probably never see all of them needed and used at once like you do in war2...

You will probably never see Archers/Trolls in GoW type of maps and you will probably never see orc vs human matches.

Watch some Starcraft 1 matches. There are matches between pro players where every unit is used. Last time (yes, there are still new tactics after so many years!) Protoss players start to use Scouts. When last time War2 had some new tactics? In 1999, when people discovered that Invisiblity is good for killing enemy workers?

War2 was my first PC game, I like this game a lot, nostalgia etc. but to be objective and honest, Starcraft 1 is far better than War2, because it's balanced game with dozens of interesting tactics.
I wish War3 followed Starcraft 1 instead of making some boring RPG/RTS mix.

73

Server.War2.ru / Re: paladins AOE passive auto heal

« on: November 09, 2020, 02:25:29 PM »

Imo auto-healing is must have if you want to balance War2. Without it Bloodlust is too op.

Also it could be awesome if this game would get total rebalance mod, with new and unique units for both races. The idea is to keep original game immerse but recreate gameplay with some unique units and balance.
Why it could be awesome? Well, I'm a War2 fan, but not a blind one and I fully understand why Age of Empires 1-3, Starcraft 1-2, Spellforce and many many other RTS games are much better than War1/War2.
First reason: Bloodlust is op so Orcs > Humans.
Second: races doesn't have unique units so every match looks almost same.

Quick fix for first issue: play with numbers and give Paladins auto-healing.
Fix for second issue: add 2 unique units for each race and a lot playing with numbers and testing.

After that game will be more fun Starcrafts are the gold standard, the role model that every great RTS should follow and in SCs units are completly unique per race, they counter each other and that makes the game interesting even after 20 years after premiere.

That's only my opinion and my dreams about "making Warcraft 2 great again" I had my chance years ago, but I didn't find anyone to work with me so my mod failed.

GL with your plans!

74

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 06, 2020, 11:18:06 AM »

Hello again 

Here I put some sprites from my mod:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uyj51Y3BJsRYq27nVj8G5UoD-2nRbveW/view?usp=sharing

It's not all I have, but rest looks bad so I won't upload them
I'm a programmer, not an artist, so most sprites are based on existing War2 sprites, but in my opinion they looks ok. One sprite was not made by me, it's knight sprite from War2 Alpha (maybe it will fit for hero knight?)

Additionaly I put there my two voice records: for paladin Turalyon and for War3 Captain. I can perform voice acting for your campaigns if you will find my voice good enough 

If you guys need more sprites you should look for Stratagus forum. There few artists made great and free sprites for Wargus (Wargus is their RTS inspired by War2) and I think they will allow you to use these sprites.

EDIT:

Here is my feedback:
Missions:

• Nice idea with revolution by Peasants
• It was a hard mission for me because I didn't notice it's a base map and I tried to kill everything only with knights, hero and 1 archer Firstly I have destroyed orcish base, next hunt some trolls in the forest and at last after I found Peasants to rescue I saw my resources and Keep nearby
• Beginning was difficult, I had to replay it few times. Later on, after training Mages with Blizzard, mission is quite simple and both AI enemies stopped their progress on Keep.
• I don't like such labyrinths and I stuck for a while because I had to recall how to do old trick from "Chop" maps Easiest map in my opinion. I didn't lose single unit here.
• Hard mission, but after few tries I finally finished it. Tons of enemy ships and gryphons but there was gold mine with huge amount of gold so with tons of archers and ballista everything is possible
• I tried like 10 times to beat it until I figure out the only way (won't spoil it for those who haven't played this campaign yet). My favourite map so far but I wish there was some another way to win it.
• What the hell? Very interesting idea but insane at the same time Cool mission.
• That mission is a nightmare. Really. I have tried maybe 20, maybe 30 times and haven't finished it yet. I blocked way to my base with Blacksmith and that stopped Blue AI (his forces stuck on forest) but Green AI has an absolute advantage. Death Knights from beginning, tons of gold, huge base. My plan was to damage one of his building and wait for his Peons to cut his economy but that plan failed - Blue helped him. I don't know how to pass this mission. Maybe with perfect base managing (building with few workers and keeping balance between gathering resources, building and training units at the same time) it is possible to beat but I'm afraid I'm not skilled enough.
  
  EDIT 2:
  I did it. Jesus, that was the most difficult mission I have ever played in War2
  
  Spoiler

  
  
  

 

75

Server.War2.ru / Re: Alaunter, act I. First unofficial campaign for Warcraft II released! (rus only)

« on: November 05, 2020, 05:47:12 AM »

Hi there,

I have just played two first missions and like it so far. Nice ideas, high difficulty (well at least for me - I'm not War2 pro gamer). I will try to finish it all and give you some feedback

Also, years ago I was working on mod for War2. I can share with you with some sprites for orc wolf raider, Death Knight Turaylon, armored peon, ogre goblinthrower and more. Let me know if these will be useful for you.