Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: ~ToRa~ on June 26, 2021, 01:46:27 PM
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I’m thinking about starting a chop and Gow league like once a month players with play from Friday night - Sunday afternoon. And winners will split like 1-2k USD.
Just trying to figure out how to make it work cause in all honesty I don’t have the time to be hosting monthly tournaments.
So please brainstorm with me here in this thread. Our numbers are down boys let’s try to boost them.
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I like that thread that listed "Tiered" Player Lists. I.e. Tier 1 was Viruz, Scrubbo, etc. One of the unique things about war2 is that there are so few players, you can actually get away with listing out the names. That's also one of the draws that keeps us here - we know who eachother are, we aren't lost in anonymity as we are in other games.
If there were an integrated Tier system into the server, that might be a fun social system to keep people interested in moving up the Tier list, as well as knowing who was in and around their Tier. We might consider implementing an under the hood ELO/Rating system, active in all games, that considered the Players on each team and calculate an elo adjustment based on the result. This way, a Top Tier player allying a lower tier player would balance out for elo projection / calculation.
Potentially alot of work, particularly in determining teams. If the code for the existing ladder rating could be leveraged that would be a fine start. Then we would only need a server syntax to list the Tier groups and names, and it could be automatically run when connecting to server so every player is reminded of it.
Personally, I would find this interesting and motivating both to see my own skill in relation, but also understand where everyone else sits on the Skill ladder. This is very much embedded in how we think about our community and construct pickups, and could appeal to players of all skill levels. New Players would have paced goals to attain up the tier tree, and existing Players would be more interested and invested in improving themselves in a more officially present system. The Tiers could then be used to facilitate or legitimize entry into tournaments of Players only in the same Tier or near-Tier groups.
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Ash’s idea is hereby approved. Now who can make this dream happen?:)
Seems a lot more difficult than creating a cases-ladder style team ladder, and we couldn’t do that…
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While I like Ash’s idea it seems unlikely to be implemented since there would be a lot of dev work to make it happen. I’m looking more into working with your exisit ing functionalities.
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The only issue with a tier system, the same issue that has always existed is nobody ever agrees on them.
Pretty much all of us can fluctuate 2-3 tiers depending on activity.. and it's very common to see a person in tier 3 lose consistently in tier 4 or 5.. because the tier 3 person is good at 1 style, and the tier 4 or 5 knows how to break that style consistently.. but maybe doesnt do good against another style.
And very few of us consistently play 1s any more. So a lot of our idea of skill is based on how we do in team games.
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The only issue with a tier system, the same issue that has always existed is nobody ever agrees on them.
Pretty much all of us can fluctuate 2-3 tiers depending on activity.. and it's very common to see a person in tier 3 lose consistently in tier 4 or 5.. because the tier 3 person is good at 1 style, and the tier 4 or 5 knows how to break that style consistently.. but maybe doesnt do good against another style.
And very few of us consistently play 1s any more. So a lot of our idea of skill is based on how we do in team games.
Absolutely. The point isn't to be perfect, but to get people engaged. The more people argue about what the Tiers SHOULD be, the more mindshare they have in war2. Good.
The proposal is basically applying the rating system from ladder to all games, with one of the major challenges being working in an adjustable team-format (perhaps limited to TvB games). It would be imperfect, but if we create an algorithm with the intention of tuning/dialing it in, everyone can debate how it should be adjusted and then tuning passes could be done.
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@Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) @iL
Would it be at all possible to implement something that Ash is suggesting?
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I'd be available for Design & specification support if desired.
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Of course they cant, they cant even take cares of a simple 1v1 ranking ladder.
And you are asking them to work on a super automatic matchmaking teams ladder leagues.
Thats the probleme here, throwing 15k and making multiples tournament league will not help anything.
What we need is smart peoples being in command and making a good mangement plan and follow it once for all.
Sadly the management here are not smart at all and its not false accusations but just the truth, truth have been proove after all those 20 years..
20 years with a server who have never grow, always been between 20 and 80 active players.
If you cant change thing with a receipe, then maybe it's time to change that receipe.
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First step: Change that domain name, we are 2021, cyber war have never been so big, peoples are scare of hacking and scare of having there personal informations stolen... When they com on my stream and the told me, oh its the greatest game of my life but they also tell me, what do you think about war2ru '' is that safe '' it mean everything..
Alot of peoples refuse to download this game just because its relate to RU ( Russia ) im not racist, im just saying a true fact!
Second step: Make sure when peoples download this game, they dont have ALERT from all those antivirus! Thats would help alot !
Why after 20 years this probleme is not solve yet?
Third step: Get more administration, and by admisnistration i mean all kind of administration... Desinger, programmers, moderators, peoples who keep things update everydays... Everyone got his own role!
There no way 3 admins whos show themself once per week can stand those kind of dreams we have.... You guys want to see that server grow up but there no administration at all, we need administration at everytime of the days, 24/24, 7/7.... Choose them wisely take somme russian for some part of the day, some american for some other part of the days, but make sure there always enouphs moderators and admins at all time.
Fourth step: Before thinking making team game ladder and league, try to just make a 1v1 relevant... Here again it's just about some oldschool players who want to please themself, because they dont like to do 1v1 they want to do teams games, thats ok... You can do that, as an individual league or ladder, make a personal league or ladder, make something for urself... But for the main server himself, we need a good 1v1 ladder ranking systeme, then when its gonna be done and active and updates and respected, we can start to think about implementing a true team game ladder on the main server.
The goal here, is not to please old school cats, but make sure everyone can play at all time, ur ladder will be good for some peoples whos always log at same time and play togheter, then they gonna log off and let the server empty with five random players whos cant do shit at all..... Make sure everyone can play at any moment and being competitive and any moment, and when server grow up and we have more actives player we can think about team ranking.
If you can do these 4 steps, then maybe it grow up, other then that, its gonna be same pattern, always gonna role between 20 and 80 players for eternity.
PS: You can hate me now.
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I got idea about chop league for 1s
2 days
first day we get players and all play vs all bo2 2-0 - 2 points 1-1 1 points 0-2 0 points(if there will be many players we can make tier1 league and tier2 league)
map 1x1 farms to avoid bugs like towerbug, players play bo2 and MUST play 2 games from different spot, winner needs to submit replays
second day top4 bracket bo7 semi, bo7 final and 3rd place bo7
14 23 1 and 2 player pick spot for first game and change spot per game
and no need lot of cash, I think 100$ for first place, 50$ 2nd and 25$ 3rd will be enough
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You see thats another probleme right here, the fact that you let everyone give there ideas... But no one can agree on something, you just let cant do that, because now it seem you must do everything to please everyone! Thats great, when you have 6 millions members, and 100 millions in budjet with 4000 staffs members, not when you have 80 members communuty with 3 admins and 5 mods whos log once per week or per month... Let's be honnest, Nobody cares about chop, i dont want to be mean, but when peoples look for this kind of games, they look for the true RTS LADDER style, wich mean, build ur own village and go attack... Nobody cares about chop, only some peoples inside this community who play for fun.... But ouside that game, chop mean nothing for RTS PLAYER. RTS players dosent even know what is chop, there no chop in starcraft, there no chop in warcraft III... Chop mean nothing for RTS PLAYERs, you will not grow anything at all with chop.... You will make it worst by splitting the community. RTS players understand what is gow and kind of ladder map like that, chop is custom game for custom player whos like to have fun in special custom games... Thats all...
Stop trying to please everyone, and just work the basic of this game, wich mean..
Real true RTS style 1v1! Then when we grow up, we work on real true rts style team game, then when its grow up even bigger we can work on chop and custom things like that...
For the moment all those chops things and customs map are just killing the game, we are a little community whos must spread themself in 2 kinds of different game style, so 50% of ur little community dont play with the other 50% of the community.
And we dont talk about those who dint even play multiplayer mode because they work on campain like if its what really matter lol, and what say about tupac and trogallart, they dont help at all too.
Everyone want to be a fucking super star here, but no one really cares about that server, they only choose what they like over what it really must be done.
Everyone want the only great solution wich will save everything...
But the only thing this server really need, is good management, marketing, profesionnalism, update, and focus on what really matter.
Its not a question of the genius idea, its about working hard and put effort.
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Would be super awesome if you kept your thoughts to yourself sometimes eq.
100% negativity 100% of the time
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Would be super awesome if you kept your thoughts to yourself sometimes eq.
100% negativity 100% of the time
Truth often look like negativity, only loser who can mentalaly progress got that perception.
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I got idea about chop league for 1s
2 days
first day we get players and all play vs all bo2 2-0 - 2 points 1-1 1 points 0-2 0 points(if there will be many players we can make tier1 league and tier2 league)
map 1x1 farms to avoid bugs like towerbug, players play bo2 and MUST play 2 games from different spot, winner needs to submit replays
second day top4 bracket bo7 semi, bo7 final and 3rd place bo7
14 23 1 and 2 player pick spot for first game and change spot per game
and no need lot of cash, I think 100$ for first place, 50$ 2nd and 25$ 3rd will be enough
Are you willing to run this? I'll do the cash payouts.
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Would be super awesome if you kept your thoughts to yourself sometimes eq.
100% negativity 100% of the time
Listen, tk, before saying truth, and being negative like you try to make me look, ive let you guys do everything you want ur own way for 10 years...
Between 2006 and 2016 i have never said a damn words.
It's since 2016 im saying truth and being negative like you say, maybe it's because everything you try have just fail for the last 15 years.....
Did you guys never make tournament before todays, did you guys never make league before todays? Did you guys never make clan war before todays, did you guys never make chop tournaments before today? Did you guys never throw prize before today? So if you already did that for the last 15 years and still not better, whats gonna make it today by doing the same damn things...
If something dint work for 15 years, then maybe you must try something else....
Are you blind or ur just acting stupid, im not sure here bro.
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I got idea about chop league for 1s
2 days
first day we get players and all play vs all bo2 2-0 - 2 points 1-1 1 points 0-2 0 points(if there will be many players we can make tier1 league and tier2 league)
map 1x1 farms to avoid bugs like towerbug, players play bo2 and MUST play 2 games from different spot, winner needs to submit replays
second day top4 bracket bo7 semi, bo7 final and 3rd place bo7
14 23 1 and 2 player pick spot for first game and change spot per game
and no need lot of cash, I think 100$ for first place, 50$ 2nd and 25$ 3rd will be enough
Are you willing to run this? I'll do the cash payouts.
Classic Adminship here again, if eq say something against u8, lets make sure u8 dream happen, same thing with ladder 1 month ago, when u8 say remove gow and i say its was stupid idea and blid decide to remove gow ten minutes after, literraly kill the server since that time lol :rofl:
Let's Go tora kill it more! thanks bro, good decision again!
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Ican try, but before that need to Ask players if they say no, I wont try, I will make topic tommorow and call choppers
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I got idea about chop league for 1s
2 days
first day we get players and all play vs all bo2 2-0 - 2 points 1-1 1 points 0-2 0 points(if there will be many players we can make tier1 league and tier2 league)
map 1x1 farms to avoid bugs like towerbug, players play bo2 and MUST play 2 games from different spot, winner needs to submit replays
second day top4 bracket bo7 semi, bo7 final and 3rd place bo7
14 23 1 and 2 player pick spot for first game and change spot per game
and no need lot of cash, I think 100$ for first place, 50$ 2nd and 25$ 3rd will be enough
Are you willing to run this? I'll do the cash payouts.
Classic Adminship here again, if eq say something against u8, lets make sure u8 dream happen, same thing with ladder 1 month ago, when u8 say remove gow and i say its was stupid idea and blid decide to remove gow ten minutes after, literraly kill the server since that time lol :rofl:
Let's Go tora kill it more! thanks bro, good decision again!
I will agree that was a stupid idea to remove gow from the ladder lol. In fairness if you look at that thread I never commentated on it since it was Blid running it.
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I like the idea tora, also Ash is conpletly right.
If you do a 2s league, top players will team up and win it all.
Newer players wont win anything and they are frustrated.
We need to figure out whos going to play. After that matched we need to put them in different tiers.
So the best gets the worst, so that we get alot even teams, like almost anyone got a small chance of winning.
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I like the idea tora, also Ash is conpletly right.
If you do a 2s league, top players will team up and win it all.
Newer players wont win anything and they are frustrated.
We need to figure out whos going to play. After that matched we need to put them in different tiers.
So the best gets the worst, so that we get alot even teams, like almost anyone got a small chance of winning.
I mean I can tag people that are declared tier 1-3 I suppose....
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I got idea about chop league for 1s
2 days
first day we get players and all play vs all bo2 2-0 - 2 points 1-1 1 points 0-2 0 points(if there will be many players we can make tier1 league and tier2 league)
map 1x1 farms to avoid bugs like towerbug, players play bo2 and MUST play 2 games from different spot, winner needs to submit replays
second day top4 bracket bo7 semi, bo7 final and 3rd place bo7
14 23 1 and 2 player pick spot for first game and change spot per game
and no need lot of cash, I think 100$ for first place, 50$ 2nd and 25$ 3rd will be enough
Are you willing to run this? I'll do the cash payouts.
Classic Adminship here again, if eq say something against u8, lets make sure u8 dream happen, same thing with ladder 1 month ago, when u8 say remove gow and i say its was stupid idea and blid decide to remove gow ten minutes after, literraly kill the server since that time lol :rofl:
Let's Go tora kill it more! thanks bro, good decision again!
I will agree that was a stupid idea to remove gow from the ladder lol. In fairness if you look at that thread I never commentated on it since it was Blid running it.
Well in fairness you will do the same if you start give prize to chop players, what you think gonna happen if you do that, gow players will start playing chop for the prize then you will split community even more and you will kill the game. For the moment we cant afford that kind of tournament just because we dont have enouph peoples for that... Let's focus on the basic, 1v1 LADDER map as the main ladder on the server, 2v2 ladder map for tournament and prize. Chop can keep playing for fun, and later if server grow up maybe we can focus on it. But the goal here is to reinforce the server, not splitting it even more.
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I like the idea tora, also Ash is conpletly right.
If you do a 2s league, top players will team up and win it all.
Newer players wont win anything and they are frustrated.
We need to figure out whos going to play. After that matched we need to put them in different tiers.
So the best gets the worst, so that we get alot even teams, like almost anyone got a small chance of winning.
Maybe do like a series of leagues? Like one weekend the top players can play another weekend the tier 2 and another weekend the rest can play. (I’m not breaking it down past 3 tiers)
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@Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) @iL
Would it be at all possible to implement something that Ash is suggesting?
I'd be available for Design & specification support if desired.
chance of building this into the client or server seems very low since it’s quite a big ask, tiers would have to be manually kept up to date too, but I see Ash’s volunteering here and I don’t know what he’s capable of. If he can do it, I guess it could be possible!
Then you have the Elo/ladder idea. Seems much more doable… but we did have a working teams ladder, it just died during a migration and it’s been too long for me to know how to work it again. But is it even worth it? again maybe Ash or someone else can take a look but just keep in mind:
The previously existing ladder first auto-added any duo that played like 10 games together in addition to having manually created teams. But there’s so many duo combinations that the standings filled up with these auto duos and custom teams had a hard time finding them to play and moving up. SoI required manual team creation to be ranked and it promptly died completely. Community was too small and couldn’t support it, there were only like 4 teams registered even with team members capped at like 4. So what would work best? I guess the auto teams worked better than just a dead league…happy to let anyone try to repair it and get it going
Factoring in elo… hmm. You could have a table that updates individual elo after every game, 1s or team. for teams it could sum up the total elo on each side and then distribute whatever is gained or lost across each team member. And then a separate teams ladder, with team standings, where the elo gained/lost is added or subtracted whole to the team score/elo. Not sure if that would make it worthwhile to put a bad player on your team or not. And still a lot of work that would need help but at least I can picture kind of how it would work.
Just keep in mind it’s a lot of work to do for three custom teams, clearly pointless really, so I think you need to auto include all duos. And I don’t know if that’s what people are interested in? If you want just custom teams I would suggest starting on myleague or just a forum thread or something to ascertain how much interest there is. Maybe you need to make it 2 player teams maximum in order to get more teams going. I think you’d want a lot of teams for it to make sense.
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Like you said, fixing the team ladder on this page could be good, if someone will take cares of it mannualy.
http://ladder.war2.ru/ (http://ladder.war2.ru/)
-No Smurfs allowed.
-Teams must be sign by the forum and approved before it approve on the ladder page.
-No 2x tier 1 togheter.
-Could do short season of 1 month, so if someone dosent like hes team he can switch teams in only a month.
Something like that.
Untill we dont have 8 differents leagues and ranking and 8 differents websites.
We must keep everything easy, proffesionnal and updated.
Everything on the same website.
http://ladder.war2.ru/ (http://ladder.war2.ru/)
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Igognito had some elo system on the server 5 years ago but I don't know if he is around anymore.
This is the thread he made about it https://forum.war2.ru/index.php?topic=2731.0 (https://forum.war2.ru/index.php?topic=2731.0)
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How about a Tier League? Teams that win their respective tier groups get promoted/ demoted with the ultimate goal of competing in the Tier 1 group, where the prize $ is. Could be an annual league with finals during December or whatever.
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Any Gow Champs here?
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I only see 2.
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I'm not sure changing domain will change anything EQ...look at GOG and War2USA...both have streamers and US domains and no added users
Tiers could be automated based on what % of pool you rank (15 users, if u rank 1-5 u are tier 1, and so on)
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I'm not sure changing domain will change anything EQ...look at GOG and War2USA...both have streamers and US domains and no added users
Tiers could be automated based on what % of pool you rank (15 users, if u rank 1-5 u are tier 1, and so on)
Well thats where you made a mystake, WAR2USA is the same thing as WAR2RU, if american and rest of the world dont wanna join WAR2RU because they are scare, then russian and rest of the world probably dont wanna join WAR2usa cuz they are also scare...
Also War2USA is only a basic server without any marketing or promotion, plus the majority of the war2 community dosent supprt war2USA server, if everyone from war2ru where moving to war2usa it would probably better then war2ru. Because at least antivirus dont flag them as virus trojan lol.
Now gog is the proof that a good marketing and promotion can bring alot of new players, but the gog server is trash, no adminship, no updates, and you cant even join/create a game because of the ports probleme, so the only reason why there no one on gog is because peoples cant play at all, so there no ones... But if you watch there forum and the number of sell they did, there alot of peoples who have buy war2 from the gog server.
So imagine if they know there a free server and they feel secure about it and they can play without any probleme.... The server will grow fast as fuck! But it's not happening...
Just read war2 subject on gog forum and you will see lot of peoples from war2 community who post there (someone like Tk by exemple) and peoples always said the same things, is war2ru secure, because my antivirus told me there a virus on this website.... And peoples laugh bro..... we 2021, there no reason why peoples download a software and get alert from every fucking damn antivirus tolding them there a trojan in this software... Nobody will fucking join this, even worst if the software is call War2RUSSIAN..... Bro let's be real.. did you ever wirte WAR2RU on google and check what peoples outside of this community say about this server, ALL THE GOD DAMN SAME THING,,, they all talk about that virus and how they will never join this server...
So first step fix that damn virus, second step change the domain name for something more open to everyone, Something Like War2World, is that not better for everyone to see everyone are welcome? The only thing i see here is a bunch of pro russian who fight for there proudness and took this game in hostage like if that game belong to russian community... Thats what i feel and thats also what i see... Why this server have TWO DIFFERENT forum? Why are we splitting community between WAR2RU ( RUSSIAN FORUM LANGUAGE ) AND war2ru ( ENGLISH VERSION FORUM ) Not only russian have there personal russian forum, but they also can change ur english version into russian language... Bro... It's an invasion of pro russian.... Im honnest here, sorry to tell it... Like the only thing you feel when you join this server is russian have take over this game and nobody feel welcome about it.... And not only if you type www.war2.ru (http://www.war2.ru) its bring directly to russian forum, why the fuck the www. dont bring to the english version instead of https: ??? It make no sens bro.... We can literally feel the pro russian here and nobody feel confortable about this except when you from the club.... There no profesionnal player or potential player who will waste time and energie for that kind of shit. And there no one in the e sports community who will cheer on there stream for us, no influence at all, nothing... This mentality is killing ur favorite game.. Let's just be honnest, because it's the truth.
You wanna make this game popular and respected and make it growing up..
Then do the things the way it must be or die with ur 20 active players per day...
First step: You fix that damn virus so nobody get flag as trojan when they join website, forum or try to download the game.
Second step : you rebrand the whole damn thing to something more friendly for the entire world , something like war2world, war2legion, war2stars, war2arena, whatever bro, dont just do something about a personal country, religion or language, or whatever stupid... we 2021 bro, nobody cares about america, canada or russia,peoples are fighting about world wide rights and fighting about being a pro something turn off everyone right away.
This game dosent belong to russians, this game belong to the world, and forcing peoples to agree on that pro russian mentality turn off everyone bro... believe me, its not racist, its not a lie, its just a damn fucking fact bro. Nobody want to join something like war2ru or war2usa ... Because its 2021 and peoples are actually fighting for equity and being pro of ur own country is just against what the rest of the world are fighting against at the right moment that we speak... So you stay in ur delusional dream where russian rule the world with warcraft II, are you try to adapt to the new direction of what peoples in the entire rest of the world are fighting for .. It mean diversity equity and being pro world, not being pro america or pro russian or pro canadian...
Third step: Admin stop being fucking idiot and start to act like true smart peoples who want to see this game growing up, because the way i see this server, is, admins dosent cares at all about this game, i only feel like they exactly want this server to stay dead, feel like they dosent wanna see this game growing up for some mysterious reason, feel like they love to have a small community, feel like there other motivation to keep this server alive other then really making this game grow up.... Why someone will keep this server for the last 15 years but dint make any effort to make it grow up?! here the question, anyway i dont cares at all about true motivation, but this game deserve respect and effort and seeing how admin have lead this game is a total shame for me.. I dont agree on there way to lead that server and i think they must wake up because right now the server is fucking pathetic, and the only reason why this server is still alive is because of peoples like me and esn who make game all day long for everyone, if esn and i leave this server for 2 weeks i garantee you this server will die ... the proof is i dint play for the last week and the only game you cant find are between 12:00 PM and 8:00 pm , but when esn and me are there you can find game all the night. And you guys are better be ready, because the lack of ladder and the new way server is going up with those chops custom map support will kill the rest of the community...
You better start listening me guys because i told you, between the next six month and next year, this server is complety death and you can say aurevoir warcraft II.
You dont believe me, then keep on this way and watch urself.
Good luck.
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I won't lie, I agree, .RU does scare a lot of people, I think (at least from the US). I apologize if that is disrespectful, as we very much appreciate iL hosting the server. To be 100% honest, I don't even feel fully comfortable with the program as many have pointed out the holes in its security. The virus flag doesn't help either, agreed. I've had enough people say, they aren't port forwarding because of the security risk. (I know we have HP now but somehow not everyone has it nor have I looked into how it functions)
I said before, there should have been a bot on GoG telling people everyone plays on .RU. That would have been a nice boost.
I agree with EQ, there are X amount of people that I think keep this game afloat. ESN and EQ are definitely the people who host the most in the evening. Both have taken long times off though. But a year ago or so, we had a lot more people playing in the evening/night. That has died down very much.
I think you could name maybe 20 people who keep this server alive with their activeness. If those 20 left, I think it would greatly hurt the community.
Here are some players we miss in the last couple of years who used to play a good amount and don't anymore or went part time: (not part of that 20 necessarily)
Braviet
Wargasm (activity has been very low),
Joe
Jordan
OM
Lone
Many [is] players
Teaboy recently at least compared to daily (maybe on aka?),
Talrand (plays a tiny bit at night sometimes, used to play a lot)
Farts (full time to very part time)
Shade
K()IN[is]
LetsRemake
Max.X.Overkill (very part time)
sepi
lego
van
Kore
burnt
ripe
warbux
startale
youngsta
Sparkz
Strata
Zeke (on sometimes),
POIUYT,
Hagentyne
BHC-Master (smurf?)
Rasak (spelling this incorrectly)
Slacher
JamesMcgill (smurfs?)
Alf (much less)
Tyrus (rarely)
Ring62 (smurfs?)
Tabac[man]- used to play sometimes, now I don't see at all
Spuds
BHC-Butcher
Disgruntled
PBRMEASAP
OuinTheLegend
Letsremake
Badfingaz (few years now)
Player (I believe was gone for a couple of years? Also biggest smurf so...)
CEL (plays on GoG now with people who don't play on RU) and/or smurf
This is just the people I can recall off hand from the last 2ish years. I rarely play during the day though, so probably a bit more. I'm sure there are a lot of choppers and other people I don't play with so much. I'm also sure a lot of people who used to play on their names are on akas.
The day seems to be busy enough that it isn't as dependent on a few people.