Warcraft II Forum

Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 07:00:15 PM

Title: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 07:00:15 PM

All three back on the server...

Ash recently back too..

Also the return of isiepierdol and wargasm..

spotted Its_hot_in_Herr

saw a C42 player


lots of returns!! We were up to 78 users online today which was great.. plus a tournament next Saturday.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 04, 2016, 07:07:21 PM

Quote from: XuRnT on December 04, 2016, 07:00:15 PM

All three back on the server...

Ash recently back too..

Also the return of isiepierdol and wargasm..

spotted Its_hot_in_Herr

saw a C42 player


lots of returns!!

You are great are providing backstory, please tell me who they are.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 07:11:55 PM

Ash considered top player left on BNET

Wargasm member of

with Viruz/Mage.. one of the top team players and pretty solid in 1vs1 as well. Won my second big festival. Isiepierdol oldschool and was good on early .ru Its_hot former Festival champion, considered one of best with unique style c42 a old big german clan and the DT guys use to dominate the oldschool cases ladders

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 04, 2016, 07:18:39 PM

Are you saying Ash was better than viruz, swift, and ganz when he was on bnet?

Also why did you wear a beanie in your video with iso vs. ST, were you cold or something?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 07:24:57 PM

You would have to ask others that but Ash and KHB were widely considered the best left before Swift / Viruz. Some say the game evolved others say the players got worst.

Also sometimes i go outside and smoke, so beanie.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 07:53:49 PM

Also forgot to mention, KGBAgents have been back as well!

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 04, 2016, 08:21:06 PM

Would be interesting to see a them all play a fastest tournament since thats what they all played pre ru.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 08:32:08 PM

Dethwave says he is a smurf, but DethMongol says the other two are real veterans. Idk.

Quote from: ~ToRa~ on December 04, 2016, 08:21:06 PM

Would be interesting to see a them all play a fastest tournament since thats what they all played pre ru.

Not really these guys most of them go pre-bnet before fastest was a thing. Its_hot can play fastest pretty well I don't think the others would have much interest in it.


---

Ash though actually had a pretty famous series with Player which started out on the old forums as a EF vs. Fastest fued. The fastest guys were saying they were better then the 24-7 channel crew (the EF guys) and Ash played a series against Player on Fastest and won it pretty easily. That was like 2001 I think.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 04, 2016, 08:58:58 PM

Who was Player before he had that name? Was he always good?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 09:29:54 PM

Maybe he can give you some insight on himself in a pm or a reply on this forum, here on some bios for a couple of those guys though. Maybe player will submit his too.

http://en.war2.ru/biographies/ash/ (http://en.war2.ru/biographies/ash/)

http://en.war2.ru/biographies/dethwlkr/ (http://en.war2.ru/biographies/dethwlkr/)

http://en.war2.ru/biographies/dethwave/ (http://en.war2.ru/biographies/dethwave/)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 04, 2016, 09:33:14 PM

Not to take any thunder away here .. but are you sure you are not giving misinformation?

Pretending to be old school players is a very commonly used practice for smurfs. As much as I would love to believe all of these old school players have coincidentally come back to the server at nearly the exact same time, i find it highly unlikely.

I cant say for certainty that the @DT guys are not legit(although i tend to believe they're not), but i'm pretty confident the KGB guys are just regular every day players who have all decided to wear KGB names.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 10:13:03 PM

the DT guys being friends with each other they could easily decide to come back at the same time.

Far as the KGB guys I think 70 is in fact a oldschool returning, and the German DEU KGB also taking back up his KGBAgent name, the other ones not sure of.

Ash,Wargasm,Hot,Isie,Lone .. those are all guys who have not been playing in awhile.. and the server numbers are up too.

Server awareness is high, a lot of people don't play all day long like they use to but the actual number of users who log on throughout the week is pretty dang high. I see all kinds of players.

Hopefully during Tora's tournament we can get another big gathering, I want to see it reach 90 or more.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 04, 2016, 10:36:56 PM

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b1/b11a3f756e23544608fdb59a7527018fa07ebad77ea62b81d5035936f66b7584.jpg)


... i know ash, lone, its_hot, wg, and isie are legit .. ash always comes on a few days then leaves, hotty does the same .. it's good to see lone, wg, and isie on.. i think they'll be fairly regular for a while.

of all the KGB's, i feel like 70 is one of the least likely to be legit in terms of an old player coming back to the server. i could be wrong.

i just truly want old school players to come back, not pretend like they are because people are simply smurfing. i dont think that does community any good. and i feel like a lot of people are simply smurfing.

i hope im wrong.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 04, 2016, 10:46:13 PM

Looking at /finger on KGBAgent70 the account was created in 2013. Would be a long time to decide to start using it as a smurf.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 05, 2016, 12:14:37 AM

Post nore epic replays like the 30 min game between iso and ST and it will.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 05, 2016, 11:44:42 AM

theres been lots of kgbs on lately, some just random smurfs, but 70 is real for sure.

i didnt know my boy its_hot was on thats cool

however I feel like there's no chance the DT guys are real?  the real guys have been gone for like 10+ years

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Paper_Boy on December 05, 2016, 05:28:30 PM

DethWlkr was a Legend in his day for team play on Kali and dabbled a little in early bnet! Cinder was good friends
with those guys he could easily verify if he pops on (Burnt will u e-harass him for me? lol). I doubt there are that many people left who knows who these guys are. Dark Tangent was the most dominant clan of its era like the Chicago Bulls. While Swift is more like Steph Curry lol..I would see him pop on every 2-3 years, its probably him. I remember last time he was doing some old school strats like 9 cannoning s9 to grunt rush in lol. He would get banned from games and people would tell him "Ur not the real Deth Wlkr, william wallice is 10 feet tall" so he kinda said fuck this lol... People need greater respect for their war2 elders instead of always being on a smurf witch hunt. Ash and Khb were also top players, the man holds the Guinness book of World Records for most broken war2 cds lol  = ) ...Nerzy and Kanuks, scrubbo Jitter, Kgbagent97, Ws- all top players for periods! I love how the current players always assume they're the top dogs when people pop on rusty time to time hehe. These niggaz could Burn DIESEL!

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 07:39:53 AM

i'm a firm believer in the war2 meta evolving over the years. If you watch replays from back in the day the stuff they do doesn't make any sense and doesn't apply well to 1v1ing masters today, or say swift. It's clear that swift is the best there was and ever will be. Ash was a beast back in the day though after hearing about him for over a decade, and watching his replays. I would say Ash in his prime is almost comparable to swift's prime. But other than Ash none of these old players impress me.

Nerzy, scrubbo, and kanuks are all very good players, but i've literally seen swift kick all of their asses.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Shotgun on December 06, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

I dunno, Nerz at the peak of his game was amazing. Swift didn't start playing until most people were on a downward spiral or had already left and came back. I remember when I first came on RU I had no idea who he was.

Also I would not be surprised at all if PB smurfed as Wlkr.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Lone on December 06, 2016, 09:56:23 AM

Quote from: Shotgun on December 06, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

I dunno, Nerz at the peak of his game was amazing. Swift didn't start playing until most people were on a downward spiral or had already left and came back. I remember when I first came on RU I had no idea who he was.

Also I would not be surprised at all if PB smurfed as Wlkr.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

If Burnt uploads the videos and you see them, you'll consider that to be far beyond impossible! :)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 11:40:16 AM

Quote from: Shotgun on December 06, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

I dunno, Nerz at the peak of his game was amazing. Swift didn't start playing until most people were on a downward spiral or had already left and came back. I remember when I first came on RU I had no idea who he was.

Also I would not be surprised at all if PB smurfed as Wlkr.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

swift's prime was in war2's prime in 02-04 when everyone was really experienced, polished, and very active. He was known as the best in the war2 lc community, and everyone who's anyone including you, i saw in the war2 lc. I used to see your name on a daily basis in war2 ladder challenges, the same time swift was around. It was also when i was new and war2 was fun and mysterious, and very much alive.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Sentinel1 on December 06, 2016, 12:46:22 PM

I always gathered that whether Nerzy, Ash, etc could compete with players of today, were better than them, worse than them, etc, was always pretty controversial with differing opinions, outside of Scrubbo.  Always seemed like people were in agreement he'd compete today with anyone.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Sentinel1 on December 06, 2016, 12:48:54 PM

Quote from: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 11:40:16 AM

swift's prime was in war2's prime in 02-04

no it wasnt lol.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Paper_Boy on December 06, 2016, 01:19:56 PM

Lol yamon desperately wants to suck swift's dick, I don't get it. Swift wasn't even around when war2 was really active and competitive, he was very late to the bnet party when many of the greats had retired or stopped taking the game as seriously. He was Calveries the known Hacker who only played fastest most of his early bent career.

Yamon ur right in the sense some of this builds  and starts have become more refined over time, that happens when you play the same map over n over, but much of that knowledge was built upon what their predecessors did & every strat has a counter regardless of who the masses feel like copying that year.

I find it funny, you're trying so speak on things you weren't even around for and when you were present u spent much of your career as a war2 nobody-joke. You begged swift to show you some things and jerk him off hard enough to become 1/2 decent by the time war2 was on life support lol. Swift is good at 1's but his talent was hardly unique, a lot of players that came before him would find him a good opponent but he would struggle to beat  many of them in a series in their prime. Swift would definitely be considered good in  earlier eras but he wouldn't stand out, its too bad he started playing when most players retired or stopped caring enough to remain competitive. Most people preferred team play something swift was never able to quite master, he was most a 1 trick pony with 1's playing for Ego not fun. He would also struggle to find 1on1 match ups since there was a big stigma against hackers. People don't like playing with people who lack integrity and find it necessary to cheat in order to win. Swift was good but never unstoppable, truth is nobody knows how much of his ef career he's hacked after being caught multiple times.

Amongst hackers he was #1
Swift, Valk, Summoner

Legit players he stands no chance against in their prime: NeRzyMan a force of nature, its too bad nobody really bothered taking that many replays back in the day. ^NaiL~SoL^ - Sick Micro and macro.... Scrubbo on a non now map

players that wouldn't go <50% in a series, khb, kanauks, shotgun,

Lol, last time I smurfed was as Ranjan, then ranjan oddly came back like a week later "wtf stole my account" lol
I bet its Swift and TK, after doing another fake retirement lol


Nobody is denying Swift is a great player but it's silly to call him an all time great, its too bad more of the greats don't come back and de rust. Then we could settle these hypotheticals once and for all!!! hehe
Swift was prolly the best Fastest player to ever play, i'll give him that


-- Ash could easily compete but his strength like Azteca was in team play. Not that they were slouches in 1's
NeRzy isn't really controversial if you speak to any "serious" person who's played in both eras

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 06:34:31 PM

Quote from: Sentinel1 on December 06, 2016, 12:48:54 PM

Quote from: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 11:40:16 AM

swift's prime was in war2's prime in 02-04

no it wasnt lol.

02-04 is when people were at their best. anyone who says players were at their best before then are just looking through rose colored glasses.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 06, 2016, 06:36:13 PM

I think swift considers his peak in 07/08

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: XuRnT on December 06, 2016, 06:36:13 PM

I think swift considers his peak in 07/08

all i heard swift talk about was how he doesn't try anymore, and how much better he used to be before ru. I can attest to that as well. in 04 almost everyone regarded swift or GLS as the best player.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 06, 2016, 06:57:00 PM

Quote from: XuRnT on December 06, 2016, 06:36:13 PM

I think swift considers his peak in 07/08

For EF It was definitely 08.  Overall, I may have been better pre .ru. The only thing I got from this damn game is shot wrists though.

I respect just about everyone's opinion on the matter, except PB's since he has a personal issue with me :D

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Knitter on December 06, 2016, 07:44:02 PM

No doubt that swift was a great player,but ive never played much with him. Most importantly i will remember him as a hacker... :-(
Thats why i will never consider him as the best. I got way more respect of legal persons like khb, nerzy, ash, scrubbo or viruz.
Well i think a few people think the same and a few dont.
Also i remember that players like khb didnt respect swift and insta left or banned him when he joined the game.
Only legal persons are legends, remember that one ;-)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Sentinel1 on December 06, 2016, 07:52:37 PM

Quote from: Yamon on December 06, 2016, 06:34:31 PM

02-04 is when people were at their best.

maybe, i dont know, i was just saying swift wasnt anywhere near his prime then.  i wasnt around then but i dont even think he was considered good in 02, even by himself.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:11:05 PM

I hate myself for saying this.. but swift is just as good as anyone else who has ever played the game. He hacked some games.. ok.. but he's also beat the shit out of everyone legit. I can understand not having respect for him because he's a hacker who pretends he doesn't live in his mom's basement... but to pretend he's not as good as anyone else is silly.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:16:24 PM

http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=LoNe&player2=DethWlkr@DT (http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=LoNe&player2=DethWlkr@DT)

Dethwlkr is afk 10 years and goes 5-2 with lone? There is ur answer if they're smurfs or not.

They just don't want other people to know that they can't beat lone in a series

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:19:16 PM

Quote from: Shotgun on December 06, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

I dunno, Nerz at the peak of his game was amazing. Swift didn't start playing until most people were on a downward spiral or had already left and came back. I remember when I first came on RU I had no idea who he was.

Also I would not be surprised at all if PB smurfed as Wlkr.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

This. I used to go even with swift when I was playing all the time (like 05-06 or something, IDK exactly). Nerz was on another level.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 07, 2016, 12:23:20 PM

Quote from: Knitter on December 06, 2016, 07:44:02 PM

No doubt that swift was a great player,but ive never played much with him. Most importantly i will remember him as a hacker... :-(
Thats why i will never consider him as the best. I got way more respect of legal persons like khb, nerzy, ash, scrubbo or viruz.
Well i think a few people think the same and a few dont.
Also i remember that players like khb didnt respect swift and insta left or banned him when he joined the game.
Only legal persons are legends, remember that one ;-)

Nerzy hacked on kali

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 07, 2016, 12:37:32 PM

Quote from: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:19:16 PM

Quote from: Shotgun on December 06, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

I dunno, Nerz at the peak of his game was amazing. Swift didn't start playing until most people were on a downward spiral or had already left and came back. I remember when I first came on RU I had no idea who he was.

Also I would not be surprised at all if PB smurfed as Wlkr.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

This. I used to go even with swift when I was playing all the time (like 05-06 or something, IDK exactly).

This is correct. Foonat absolutely did go even with me during my very first year playing EF and his 10th+ in late 06 / early 07. This is the same time frame when I was losing to viruz in embarrassing fashion while he used humans and I was still trying to learn old and EF. It wasn't until year 2 of EF that I was competing with / beating all the EF players. Not all players are naturals like Lone who learned how to get fairly good with 3 months of total practice. He's the one and only real war2 prodigy.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:39:06 PM

I actually started playing around 2001 (and also started on GOW BNE/F), and you had already been playing EF for a year or two.  8)

I had a winning record on viruz around that time as well (I don't think I was better, I think my style just matched up well with his)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:44:03 PM

And BTW - the point of my post is not to say that you, or any of the other "best" players of the past 5 years or so, are good or bad. The point is that your skill relative to others whose skills have substantially declined (due to disinterest or age) is what makes you stand out. I think that was Shotgun's point. And actually Shotgun is in a unique position to comment on this IMO, as he barely plays and is still really good, maybe the best right now.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:45:57 PM

Sg has never been the best as long as I've been playing on ru.  Szwag is hands down the best active player imo.. and lone may take that title if he keeps doing what he's doing.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 07, 2016, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:45:57 PM

Sg has never been the best as long as I've been playing on ru.  Szwag is hands down the best active player imo.. and lone may take that title if he keeps doing what he's doing.

I would like to see a series between SG and Swagier. I still have yet to see that match up.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 01:04:40 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:45:57 PM

Sg has never been the best as long as I've been playing on ru.  Szwag is hands down the best active player imo.. and lone may take that title if he keeps doing what he's doing.

sg is better than both of them

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:14:06 PM

Sg is losing against szwag. . 5-6 .. and I think szwag  is better now than he was when they played last

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 01:16:48 PM

Okay so they're even in 1v1, and sg is way better in 2v2 (this is more subjective I guess - people might disagree here), leaves us with sg being a better player.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:17:33 PM

Sg has always been just a fuzzy away from being best.. always 2nd or 3rd ..

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:19:04 PM

Extremely subjective .. which leaves us with sg still currently losing against szwag in 1v1

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:22:07 PM

"Better at 2v2"  .. at my prime, hotty and wg were very active and at their prime as well.. I couldn't win a 2v2 with hotty as ally, but me and wg could compete with and even beat other "top teams"  .. just styles matching up or not...

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 01:23:45 PM

Do you realize that with such a small sample size (and on GOW, results of which are affected by sample size more than balanced maps), 5-6 means they're basically even, right? Being 1 game up over 11 games would not have me proclaiming him as the better player..

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:37:23 PM

I do realize that. But I also believe szwag has improved..

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 07, 2016, 02:44:07 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:22:07 PM

"Better at 2v2"  .. at my prime, hotty and wg were very active and at their prime as well.. I couldn't win a 2v2 with hotty as ally, but me and wg could compete with and even beat other "top teams"  .. just styles matching up or not...

is that supposed to say shotty?  because hotty was alltime ally mvp material

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 07, 2016, 03:40:45 PM

Quote from: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:39:06 PM

I actually started playing around 2001 (and also started on GOW BNE/F), and you had already been playing EF for a year or two.  8)

I had a winning record on viruz around that time as well (I don't think I was better, I think my style just matched up well with his)

No, I officially started EF when .ru came out because the transition to .ru wiped out the vast majority of the fastest community, and so I was left with having to learn EF. At first I was very reluctant, and disliked EF's slowness with a passion, but I didn't want to quit war2 and so I played EF and fell in love with it within a few months. But that's beside the point. Our roughly 30-40 games against each other we're all during the first year of .ru, which was my first real year of EF - I played maybe 150~ games (that's a generous guess) of EF prior to .ru throughout the six years or so, most notably in the first festival where I lost to Valkrie 1-2 in the finals or semi finals.

Viruz, bara, jakes, lux and more can all vouche that I didn't transition to EF until .ru.

I am not trying to discredit you though, that's not what this is about. I was always very honest about our record, and I was the one that let you know originally that you are the only other player besides ruz who has a roughly 50/50 record vs me on EF. I'm not saying you weren't good, because you clearly were, but after that time frame when you and I used to play a lot I improved substantially on EF. I actually think you are one of the most underrated players by far as well and were a solid 2ser too.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 07, 2016, 03:48:51 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:14:06 PM

Sg is losing against szwag. . 5-6 .. and I think szwag  is better now than he was when they played last

Swag is really good. You didn't ask me, but I think Swag, poscow, lone and Jesk are the only great players to arise in the last 7-8 years in my opinion, but I don't think he's better than SG. I think with equal/similar activity swag probably wins 20-30% of the games at best to start and if he keeps playing against top competition for an extended period of time would have the potential to improve greatly.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 03:54:12 PM

Quote from: Swift on December 07, 2016, 03:40:45 PM

Quote from: foonat on December 07, 2016, 12:39:06 PM

I actually started playing around 2001 (and also started on GOW BNE/F), and you had already been playing EF for a year or two.  8)

I had a winning record on viruz around that time as well (I don't think I was better, I think my style just matched up well with his)

No, I officially started EF when .ru came out because the transition to .ru wiped out the vast majority of the fastest community, and so I was left with having to learn EF. At first I was very reluctant, and disliked EF's slowness with a passion, but I didn't want to quit war2 and so I played EF and fell in love with it within a few months. But that's beside the point. Our roughly 30-40 games against each other we're all during the first year of .ru, which was my first real year of EF - I played maybe 150~ games (that's a generous guess) of EF prior to .ru throughout the six years or so, most notably in the first festival where I lost to Valkrie 1-2 in the finals or semi finals.

Viruz, bara, jakes, lux and more can all vouche that I didn't transition to EF until .ru.

I am not trying to discredit you though, that's not what this is about. I was always very honest about our record, and I was the one that let you know originally that you are the only other player besides ruz who has a roughly 50/50 record vs me on EF. I'm not saying you weren't good, because you clearly were, but after that time frame when you and I used to play a lot I improved substantially on EF. I actually think you are one of the most underrated players by far as well and were a solid 2ser too.

Gotcha - I think your points are fair.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 05:09:36 PM

Quote from: eyyy im walkin here on December 07, 2016, 02:44:07 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:22:07 PM

"Better at 2v2"  .. at my prime, hotty and wg were very active and at their prime as well.. I couldn't win a 2v2 with hotty as ally, but me and wg could compete with and even beat other "top teams"  .. just styles matching up or not...

is that supposed to say shotty?  because hotty was alltime ally mvp material

no. it was supposed to say hotty. me and hotty did not play well together at all. me and hotty could go 1-5 vs esn/sepi.. and me and wg would go like 4-2 vs STEVE/LUX type players.


and it was understood that while all that was going on, hotty was a "better" player than wg.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 05:18:13 PM

Quote from: Swift on December 07, 2016, 03:48:51 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:14:06 PM

Sg is losing against szwag. . 5-6 .. and I think szwag  is better now than he was when they played last

Swag is really good. You didn't ask me, but I think Swag, poscow, lone and Jesk are the only great players to arise in the last 7-8 years in my opinion, but I don't think he's better than SG. I think with equal/similar activity swag probably wins 20-30% of the games at best to start and if he keeps playing against top competition for an extended period of time would have the potential to improve greatly.

i'd add hotty to that list.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 07, 2016, 07:10:12 PM

Quote from: ~ToRa~ on December 07, 2016, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 12:45:57 PM

Sg has never been the best as long as I've been playing on ru.  Szwag is hands down the best active player imo.. and lone may take that title if he keeps doing what he's doing.

I would like to see a series between SG and Swagier. I still have yet to see that match up.

I believe in 2014 we actually did get Shotgun vs. Szwagier in the Warcraft 2 Festival. (Might be wrong though

It was a really packed one (59 players)  the final four people in the semi finals were

Swift vs. BHC-Jesk

Shotgun vs. Viruz

Unfortunately BHC-Jesk had to bail out though. Those 4 at the time were my picks as the top 4 but I think Szwagier was not far behind then either.

He won the Map Variety 2vs2 Tour that weekend and had a really good showing in the 2vs2 gow ef.

---

Double checked the ladder and looks like that it indeed did happen
http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=Shotgun&player2=Szwagier (http://ladder.war2.ru/record.php?player1=Shotgun&player2=Szwagier)

Idk what happened to the replays for that one.. I have most of the replays on the youtube channel from the tournament. Szwagier might still have them.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 07, 2016, 08:07:18 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 05:18:13 PM

Quote from: Swift on December 07, 2016, 03:48:51 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 01:14:06 PM

Sg is losing against szwag. . 5-6 .. and I think szwag  is better now than he was when they played last

Swag is really good. You didn't ask me, but I think Swag, poscow, lone and Jesk are the only great players to arise in the last 7-8 years in my opinion, but I don't think he's better than SG. I think with equal/similar activity swag probably wins 20-30% of the games at best to start and if he keeps playing against top competition for an extended period of time would have the potential to improve greatly.

i'd add hotty to that list.

hot's been around forever

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 07, 2016, 08:17:25 PM

i never saw him pre .ru  .. i guess he was around in 07 when i came back to war2. i wouldnt have thought he's been around much longer than cow

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Shotgun on December 08, 2016, 01:12:27 AM

I barely play and still hang with the euros who play daily

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 08, 2016, 01:19:06 AM

Quote from: Shotgun on December 08, 2016, 01:12:27 AM

I barely play and still hang with the euros who play daily

I think you're used to playing with lag while most players are not. Doesn't that give you some kind of advantage?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Shotgun on December 08, 2016, 01:24:40 AM

As for never really reaching #1, I was pretty much there between 03 until 08 when I stopped playing, Nerzy and I were probably the most dominant 1on1 players and I was IMO the best on low res for that entire period, most people commenting on this thread didn't even own war2 at that time (even though, that was LATE in regards to war2s peak populace online).

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 12:52:19 PM

I got here in 07 and the 3 names that were talked about  when I fist came to the server were you, swift, and ruz.. based on what I saw, I felt like in 07 both of them has an extremely small edge on u in 1s ... not sure about ruz, but watching u and swift in team games was ugly back then.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 08, 2016, 12:58:42 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 12:52:19 PM

I got here in 07 and the 3 names that were talked about  when I fist came to the server were you, swift, and ruz.. based on what I saw, I felt like in 07 both of them has an extremely small edge on u in 1s ... not sure about ruz, but watching u and swift in team games was ugly back then.

Explain why SG and swift were ugly together.

Also explain why 00joe and kyle are the best 2s team but their record is 200-80, how can inferior players beat joe/swift at such a high percentage.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 08, 2016, 02:06:36 PM

Ben - Joe can attest to this but he's one of the players that when I ally I pretty much just go out mass peon scouting /towering  for the great majority of our games, so our 2s record doesn't really indicate our potential.

Not only that, but I didnt really try to be smart about my approach to towering people, I would just do things like run mass peons into their base all at once and try to make something work without any forethought. He's just one of the few allies who happens to not yell at me for doing stupid strats.

Also, we never claimed to be the best 2s team...tho no denying we are pretty snazzy  ;D

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 05:30:08 PM

Quote from: BenJamin on December 08, 2016, 12:58:42 PM

Quote from: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 12:52:19 PM

I got here in 07 and the 3 names that were talked about  when I fist came to the server were you, swift, and ruz.. based on what I saw, I felt like in 07 both of them has an extremely small edge on u in 1s ... not sure about ruz, but watching u and swift in team games was ugly back then.

Explain why SG and swift were ugly together.

Also explain why 00joe and kyle are the best 2s team but their record is 200-80, how can inferior players beat joe/swift at such a high percentage.

i wasnt saying SG and swift were ugly necessarily together, just in any team game period .. because they were pretty much exclusively 1v1 players for a while, and then they transitioned to 2v2.. and there is a completely different dynamic and lots of different variables to 2v2 which 1v1 players suck at initially, regardless of how good they are in 1v1 because they simply don't know what's going on.. and ego plays a part also "I'm a beast at 1v1.. i don't really need my ally to do much for us to win"  which isn't the case at all.

who said joe and swift were the best team? .. and where do you see their team record?  today they may possibly be the best 2v2 team, if they truly are, it's because they play together so often and have good communication.. i don't know.. i personally think there are other potential matchups that could beat them if they communicated properly (pick any two: steve, startale, braviet, lux, jesk, ash or WG (if not rusty))

but lets say they are the best .. and 200-80 is their record .. in 2v2's there are so many variables that can ruin a game really fast. just starting next to eachother (joe 11 swift 9) greatly reduces the chances of winning... because all their enemy has to do is keep them from expanding which is pretty easy to do when they're cornered in 9/11. 200-80 is probably a really good 2v2 record, especially considering most of the people who agree to play them are solid players.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 05:45:55 PM

another example

joe = 4 o clock
swift = 12 o clock


Startale = 5
Lux = 2 o clock

joe/st neighbors       swift/lux neighbors


if either joe or swift die early in the game, it's over... say joe loses the 4/5 tower war to startale .. swift has pretty much 0 chance of beating lux becaue lux will just play defence and wait for startale to get big ... it turns into a 2v1 really fast because joe happened to die early, or maybe not even die, just made a mistake that put him clearly behind startale.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 05:46:26 PM

What active team can beat 00joe/00kyle? Don't say Viruz/lux

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 05:51:34 PM

in my opinion the only reason swift/joe could be labeled the best 2v2 team is just because when they are both online, they're friends and they auto-ally eachother. so they play together more than anyone else.. that's their advantage .. but yeah, if  any of the two: braviet/szwag/lux/steve/startale/jesk/alf (or an unrusted ash or WG) became really good friends and auto-allied eachother all the time then i think those teams would be at the very least even with joe/kyle and some of those matchups would be better

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 08, 2016, 05:54:30 PM

So tk's answer is no team right now but few player combinations have the potential.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 05:57:11 PM

i havent watched the two of them play 2 solid players who worked together well ... but where are you seeing 200-80?   is there a team ladder page still up

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: foonat on December 08, 2016, 06:33:57 PM

pretty sure nova and i went roughly even recently vs them (maybe it was joe and someone else, can't remember for sure) and nova and i both suck lol

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 06:49:03 PM

Quote from: foonat on December 08, 2016, 06:33:57 PM

pretty sure nova and i went roughly even recently vs them (maybe it was joe and someone else, can't remember for sure) and nova and i both suck lol

wouldnt surprise me at all and no, neither of u suck..  i could see u 2 doing well vs them.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: O4L on December 08, 2016, 07:02:18 PM

Quote from: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 05:46:26 PM

What active team can beat 00joe/00kyle? Don't say Viruz/lux

Jesk/Alf

Szwagier/IAmBadman

Those two teams would put up a good showdown

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 08, 2016, 07:06:52 PM

Rat/Alf team Sweden!!
Sg/Dugs team ANZ!!!

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 07:32:28 PM

Quote from: XuRnT on December 08, 2016, 07:02:18 PM

Quote from: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 05:46:26 PM

What active team can beat 00joe/00kyle? Don't say Viruz/lux

Jesk/Alf

Szwagier/IAmBadman

Those two teams would put up a good showdown

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 07:33:08 PM

Quote from: eyyy im walkin here on December 08, 2016, 07:06:52 PM

Rat/Alf team Sweden!!
Sg/Dugs team ANZ!!!

i wish rat were more active.. :(

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 07:35:27 PM

i'd be willing to bet lux/steve do pretty well (both active and both play against joe/swift)  or someone who startale doesnt feel comfortable raging against (possibly a steve or lux)   .. once anyone starts getting blamed for the losses, any team falls apart.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Sentinel1 on December 08, 2016, 07:36:58 PM

I think Szwagier and G3mini would give Swift/Joe a good run.

One thing I've always wondered is why the fuck have Shotgun and Swift 1v1'd each other only like 10 times in their whole history?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 07:37:08 PM

ive always found knitter to be a really good 2v2 ally also .. i think lux and knitter would do great against them, especially if lux is extremely aggressive with grunts (he has a mean rush from any location) and knitter does his duals...

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 07:48:51 PM

Quote from: XuRnT on December 08, 2016, 07:02:18 PM

Quote from: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 05:46:26 PM

What active team can beat 00joe/00kyle? Don't say Viruz/lux

Jesk/Alf

Szwagier/IAmBadman

Those two teams would put up a good showdown

Swagier and badman would be a good one.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 07:50:07 PM

Quote from: Sentinel1 on December 08, 2016, 07:36:58 PM

One thing I've always wondered is why the fuck have Shotgun and Swift 1v1'd each other only like 10 times in their whole history?

Its the time difference

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 08, 2016, 08:31:30 PM

War2 World Cup

Team Sweden Rat/Alf
Team Poland Szwagier/G3mini
Team Germany JesK/Knitter
Team America Swift/Joe
Team Australia Sg/Doug
Team Canada Tyrus/braviet
Team Russia spb/?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 08, 2016, 08:35:18 PM

Team Cuba (honorary) foonat/Viruz
Team Italy Its_Hot/Medivh

you could also have qualification matches where say (DI)Ash and (DI)khb compete to be Team America... valk/poscow compete to be Team Canada... etc

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 08:37:53 PM

Quote from: Sentinel1 on December 08, 2016, 07:36:58 PM

I think Szwagier and G3mini would give Swift/Joe a good run.

One thing I've always wondered is why the fuck have Shotgun and Swift 1v1'd each other only like 10 times in their whole history?

agreed with szwag/g3m

top players don't really like to 1v1 eachother from what i see, especially when both top players have an ego (and lets be honest, most of us have some sort of ego)... not unlike any other closely skilled players with egos reluctant to 1v1 eachother.. because once they 1v1 eachother, the rest of the community can definitively say "XXX is better than YYY"

as a carpenter (and electrician) with lots of slow winters, i've been online during the normal work day when both of them were online and have played in many team games when both of them were on/playing against eachother in team games.. but i feel like it's understood between the two of them "we're not going to 1v1 eachother"

that's my take on it... and i get it because i do the same shit with some players closer to my skill that i don't really want to admit is better or they don't want to admit im better .. or neither one of us want to take the chance of 1v1ing eachother to find out who is better :)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 08, 2016, 08:38:39 PM

Good luck getting them all to play.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 08, 2016, 08:38:52 PM

medivh sucks 2v2 ... he was smurfing a while back and trying to learn 2v2 .. but i dont think he kept up with it.

well he doesn't completely suck 2v2 ... but if you didn't know it was him, you would never guess it was.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 08, 2016, 09:17:18 PM

Quote from: Sentinel1 on December 08, 2016, 07:36:58 PM

One thing I've always wondered is why the fuck have Shotgun and Swift 1v1'd each other only like 10 times in their whole history?

What do you mean? We have played maybe 100x, not counting times we smurfed one another.

My favorite part of war2 was playing against the best players. I sought out and played many games against every player considered great on .ru, even if I had to come out of a hiatus  to do so - like vs scrubbo, poscow and now swag recently.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Shotgun on December 09, 2016, 12:39:32 AM

Meat~ and I would murder any team 2on2, no exceptions. Doug and I also when we actually play seriously, which hasn't been for a long time now

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Fredrik Eriksson on December 09, 2016, 01:28:53 AM

Unf0 & ReiBorsoi for team brazil

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: ~ToRa~ on December 09, 2016, 04:28:00 AM

Ripe[Eur0] and Sepi team Finland

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Paper_Boy on December 09, 2016, 08:38:45 AM

Me and Jitter will rape for team taiwain !! Republic of China

iF he's busy i'll take 00Tony


war2 Olympics?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 09, 2016, 10:07:56 AM

Quote from: Paper_Boy on December 09, 2016, 08:38:45 AM

Me and Jitter will rape for team taiwain !! Republic of China

iF he's busy i'll take 00Tony


war2 Olympics?

Is tony even asian? Maybe you should take cancel instead.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Certified MENSA Genius Brain (smart) on December 09, 2016, 10:09:33 AM

Jitter would have to ally the only other Taiwanese player, his flunky TWN-Cancel

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Sentinel1 on December 10, 2016, 04:54:31 AM

Quote from: Swift on December 08, 2016, 09:17:18 PM

What do you mean? We have played maybe 100x, not counting times we smurfed one another.

any time ive tried to research your guys' games on the ladder its been almost zero, literally (like i said) ten or so games.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Swift on December 10, 2016, 11:23:26 AM

Quote from: Sentinel1 on December 10, 2016, 04:54:31 AM

Quote from: Swift on December 08, 2016, 09:17:18 PM

What do you mean? We have played maybe 100x, not counting times we smurfed one another.

any time ive tried to research your guys' games on the ladder its been almost zero, literally (like i said) ten or so games.

The current ladder was reset or something some years ago and doesn't have any record of games from the first few years of .ru, which is when most of our games took place. Since maybe 2011 we have probably played 20-30 games ( ballpark guess). As you should also know, the ladder may miss a game or two out of a series and isn't really good for relying on total games played but more just a general idea of how two players tend to do against each other. I'm basically just telling you that you aren't using a reliable source.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: Ash on December 10, 2016, 10:41:31 PM

Hi folks, I finally found the new forums :)
I don't think its the real DethWave, he didnt even talk to me or respond to his name when I tried to talk to him, and I knew Dethwave pretty well. He wasn't afk either. I've seen wlkr come back before but he gets pretty rusty especially in today's meta. Could have been him, just ask him his real name 
 
It's great to come back and see so many good players and get good games. I had a blast on my recent 2-week or so stint.

 
It's funny to think about the war2 "Classical" era - it really only lasted a few years, 96-99 or so. Back on Kali you had singles ladders with thousands of people, and doubles ladders with hundreds of teams - each with rosters 4+ deep. On top of that you had a pub scene with 12+ games 24/7, with highly competitive players that only played pubs. The great thing about those days was the diversity in maps and resources. POS was just as if not more popular than GOW for quite awhile. MAZE was considered a high-skill map that top players would pick, b2b and gseps were in the mix as well. FOC or HSC were always parts of a series. 3v3.pud and friends were also commonplace, moreso in pubs but were also be played on ladders. All of this on a mix of resources. So with all of this and a deep pool of players, skill was more general and varied. You didn't see anything close to the level of perfection and GOW science today. And with that deeper pool of players and maps, you would see more tactical diversity and experimentation even within GOW itself.
 
On Kali, as now, there were lots of great players. They came and went, and many didn't always grind for top ladder spot, but they could provide tough matches. Towards the end of the Kali era, top players moved on to Counterstrike, Diablo, or Starcraft. A few players like myself, DiLLs, $hield, khb, MeaT, and others were still around dominating the top spots, but it was getting old and the competition was dying down.
 
BNET edition was a new era that many of us were excited for as it brought a resurgence of excitement back. Azteca, KHB, MEAT, [24-7] - some of the top players I remember from the time. Cases ladder had a revival, and competitive games were back. Buzzbomb and Valkrie were also quite good, but it wasn't long before people became aware that BNET edition was very easy to hack, and the hacks were widespread with the resurgence in popularity. Fairly early on, Azteca and I caught Valkrie hacking in an impossible situation (he targeted a death knight outside of vision range). He didn't send ss, and we knew he was caught. However many in the community wouldn’t accept it, or even if they did there wasn’t much you could do about it. Valkrie continued playing at a top level, and continued hacking. It was the beginning of the end for us old schoolers, because integrity of the game was now forever lost.
 
After Valkrie, a slew of players who had been playing for years saw relatively fast transcendence in skill. Summoner and Swift0ne were 2 of the standouts (went from piss-poor to top tier), but the truth was you just couldn’t tell anymore who was playing legit. It was too easy to avoid detection, a hastle to enforce it, and even when people were caught, they could deny or say it was just that 1 game. Correlated to this, the meta-game became more “Hacky”. People in general would find new expansions or hidden attacks easily, never be caught un-lusted, and play defensively until they knew they had the upper hand. Hackers not only were better because of the hacks they were using, but because they could learn the game, opposing strategies, and enemy build timings much faster than the rest of us playing in the dark. People only played GOW, because it became the only map you could tell if someone was hacking on. This worked in the hackers favor as they could continuously watch and learn the various behaviors of different opponents on the same map throughout thousands of games, becoming experts on possible GOW strategy variations.
 
It became a hacking meta, where each player knew they had to assume they were being hacked against, and just waiting for the other to do something overly suspicious so that they would pause and ask for ss. And the Hackers of course, being overly careful to make their hack play seem as innocent and legit as possible. Blech.
 
This lead to the evolution of the meta we see today, which fosters this type of player with legitimate tactics such as forward scouting farms, more common scouting patterns, less “hidden” strategies, less emphasis on dk’s (compared to classical era, although I see more now than years back) etc. I think the prevailing attitude now is that everyone plays legit, because why hack a 20 year old game with only a handful of players? But really that was our mentality back then too. People still did it then, got caught, continued to hack and deny it, and get caught again. And they probably still do.
 
There’s that dark part of the history, and it’s unfortunate. Because war2 is such as great competitive game. Anyone who participated in that darkness is to me, damned and undeserving of any credit or recognition whatsoever. And really, you can see the lack of skill in these hackers when they play a variety of maps and resources, because they have not practice-hacked in countless games on those various settings. Swift, Summoner, Kingmage (whom I like personally) – these guys are good at the game but nowhere near the top level I’ve seen from various players throughout the years. And above all, good players who have reached those heights while maintaining their integrity deserve that credit. It’s an insult to anyone who has played this game while respecting it to give hackers any sort of credit or top spot when considering best or stack-ranked players.
 
But as much as I hate to admit it, we all deserve something for what we have achieved in this game. And that’s what makes war2 so special – its small enough that each of us make a difference. Whether you are the best 1v1, a great 2v2 ally, a hacking Archvillain, or just someone to watch and observe and hang out with - we’ve all played our part in war2 history. The world wouldn't be the same without scumbags, and like it or not they're out there. I get to take away my pre-hack war2 glory days, and my spurts of good wins here and there. But there are many players of equal or greater skill to me or to anyone that have come and gone. Many awesome players are still active today, or have started since the old days and have come up. As good as I, KHB, Incinerate, Viruz, Valkrie, Swift, etc. were on our best day – someone else has equaled that at some point. Thanks to all of you for continuing to play and keep the game alive so that I have something to come back to. Lets continue to keep this community alive, and hopefully maintain it with the integrity that it deserves  8)

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: BenJamin on December 12, 2016, 07:17:43 PM

Omg Ash in the house. What us this old school style that Ash plays?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 12, 2016, 08:26:58 PM

 Interesting insight into the history from ur perspective ash. Good post

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: mousEtopher on December 14, 2016, 06:21:52 AM

Welcome Ash! Nice to see you at the forum :D Great post, all this nostalgia makes me sad that I missed out on the early days

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: shesycompany on December 14, 2016, 07:38:40 PM

when i played kali,i had a custom version of 2.00. we used ipx of course,something about how it was the hacks would not work,o yeah i was low down i was gonna doit to all my friends lol

2005 kali

dam right it had a short shelf life,(late 2001 early 2002 ish)sam's club/walmart 1 day bnet battlechest every where,next visit a month later gone! still got starcraft1 original from wal mart in 07.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 14, 2016, 07:42:26 PM

people were playing war2 on kali in 2005?

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: shesycompany on December 14, 2016, 07:50:05 PM

me -lac jessu alot of brazil.i played kali constant from 05-08 group of about 20 people.

the longest running game of kali is (drum roll) red alert..they lasted i think till 2011, and now got there own server stuff.

o god jessu! me and next!!!!(war2 kali died when he left it was determined) played with red alert i made them gowbne alt map in ra , it was a pretty fun dam time lol,we made them play war2 with us also and they couldnt get it.

oh yeah that was late,i already had jay cottons #1 id geek i was ,dam im buzzing gone to music,but im warning u orc players a good human player someday will prove to u they are the best.

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: tk[as] on December 14, 2016, 08:37:31 PM

crazy... i even went to kali a few years back to see if any people were still playing there, and if they were i was going to try to bring them to .ru.  :D

Title: Re: DethWave@DT DethMongal@DT DethWlkr@DT
Post by: shesycompany on December 14, 2016, 08:49:06 PM

i highly doubt they do nowdays,we was young 20's then the youngest was 15,probably got them new consoles.
 people just dont search ipx like they used to. great software for a lan party!