Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: ~ToRa~ on November 16, 2016, 04:02:18 PM
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Title self explanatory.
How would you kill 12/2 from 6 without moving to a different spot.
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you have to outplay your enemy. Key weakness - dont try to take expo at s5. its easily raped and you lose. Id suggest blocking s9 and acquiring 8 instead.
You cant really outrush your enemy, but you can easily be outrushed, so some prayers are also nice.
BTW: same question, but 6 vs 9/11 dual :33
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Ive always felt like the key is to scouting 12/2 before they scout you, then survive the first rush. Once thats done you can proceed to prepare for a late game.
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It's really hard to beat 12/2 from 6 if you're not the better player. You can try to rush hard and get aggressive with a tower or cat, especially if they're 12. They'll probably have ogres by the time you might break through though, so it's hard.
The conventional way would be to rush hard enough to survive. Don't throw away your grunts in offensive attacks, but don't go crazy making dozens if they're just going to defend. It's a semi-long walk so you have a chance to hold their rush, should they rush. You're still disadvantaged so then you must outplay them late game.
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you have to outplay your enemy. Key weakness - dont try to take expo at s5. its easily raped and you lose. Id suggest blocking s9 and acquiring 8 instead.
You cant really outrush your enemy, but you can easily be outrushed, so some prayers are also nice.
BTW: same question, but 6 vs 9/11 dual :33
Seal up the entrance to the right of 9, kill 9. Take s9.
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You dont... not unless they make serious mistakes
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Please move the strategy section of forms. There is way too much conversation happening in this thread
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What ive usually done is set up a choke with farms and put up a gt. But then like blid said if your not the better player its still hard to win, unless they went all in grunts.
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there is wayyyyy too much to talk about a 6 v 12 war.
to keep it extremely simple, 6 is at a huge disadvantage right from the start. the gold is slow which screws you early game, there isn't a lot of room to build inside the actual base, there's not a lot of wood close to the town hall or where most people typically make their lumbermill which slows wood flow down, and 6 is easily towered.. if the tower is successful, it's pretty much pointless to keep playing in a 1v1.
the best way to beat 12 when you're 6 is to have a good idea of how your enemy plays, and know how they play vs 6. If their opponent is 6, do they do a super massive rush because they believe it will be easy to out rush 6? do they really love towering people? do they want to play it safe and choke 12 o clock with 6-7 grunts and a cat?
If you suspect 12 will play safe and go 6 grunts and a cat.. maybe stop peon production around 12 peons, go mass grunts, and get an unseen cannon tower @ entrance of 12 o clock before their cat pops... or maybe counter dual and put a ton of defense up at the right time (just before you expect him to run in you with lust) .. with the idea being that you will be slowed to lust, but once you get there you can overpower 12 because 2 hall > 1 hall.
If you think they will try to overwhelm you with grunts .. you can either turtle and make a cat, or slow peon production to match their grunts .. and after their big wave fails run up with your grunts and a peon or two to cannon your way into 12 .. again, idea being they don't know they're being cannoned.
regardless of whether they love towering or not, you need to make sure you're not towered.. whether it's building farms back there, patrolling with a grunt, walling it off with a smith/farm like some people do.. whatever works and makes you feel the most comfortable
The advantages of 6 o clock (if you can live long enough to utilize them) is 8 is an awesome easily defendable expansion. s9 is a good early decoy expansion and can also serve to make sure 9 isn't taken by enemy (make a dk in s9)
also .. 6 is typically the very last place scouted in 1v1 because it's the smallest threat... it's comforting knowing you're safe the first 2-3 minutes of the game :)
here's a couple video's from 6 o clock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf6EnxpKkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf6EnxpKkw) < me vs pavlos
https://youtu.be/iCEDBxaWXro?list=PLxMYE5H6_03KKg_JAHcZEa629gPbuJiIo (https://youtu.be/iCEDBxaWXro?list=PLxMYE5H6_03KKg_JAHcZEa629gPbuJiIo) < viruz vs braviet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nDAW7cYSF4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nDAW7cYSF4) < me vs frost (actually a 6 vs 12)
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because 6 is typically last place scouted in 1v1 .. building a smith before barracks (faster upgrades) is a fairly popular strat if you're going to stay.
being a lvl ahead of your opponent is a pretty nice equalizer in early rushes.
one of the most important things about war2 is knowing what you're enemy is doing sometimes without actually seeing it .. you have to scout as much as possible regardless of whatever position you're in (knowledge is power) but there are also lots of little clues ... if you engage their grunts, click on their grunts. pay attention to what lvl their grunts are. you will start to pick up on things like "they should be lvl 3 by now.. why aren't they lvl 3 yet" or "oh shit they're lvl 4" start picking up on stuff like that and you will gain insight as to what they are actually doing which means you can adjust what you're doing to live.
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I'd echo most of what tk said. You can't just battle evenly (e.g., rush vs. rush or power vs. power) because if the players are equally skilled you will always lose. You need to go rush/tower if they power, or power if they rush. What a lot of people used to do vs a rushing 12/2 is go 1 rax lvl 5 from 6, playing defensively and prioritizing grunts over peons early when you can't pump both. But it's really hard either way and that's why 1v1 on GOW kinda sucks
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you have to outplay your enemy. Key weakness - dont try to take expo at s5. its easily raped and you lose. Id suggest blocking s9 and acquiring 8 instead.
You cant really outrush your enemy, but you can easily be outrushed, so some prayers are also nice.
BTW: same question, but 6 vs 9/11 dual :33
sorry i edited ... i read it wrong initially ... i dont think anything other than a cat rush would work
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maybe not only thing that would work, but most likely to work.
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maybe not only thing that would work, but most likely to work.
Ive broken the s/9 -9 dual with just grunts and a couple cts. Really depends how fast ur opponent is.
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against the 9/11 dual from 6, i'd put a barracks at s9 blocking path to 9 and just cat 9, or try chopping in to one of the spots. 9 has alot of spots to chop in from
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against the 9/11 dual from 6, i'd put a barracks at s9 blocking path to 9 and just cat 9, or try chopping in to one of the spots. 9 has alot of spots to chop in from
U dont think peon scouting from 6 is a waste of resources
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against the 9/11 dual from 6, i'd put a barracks at s9 blocking path to 9 and just cat 9, or try chopping in to one of the spots. 9 has alot of spots to chop in from
U dont think peon scouting from 6 is a waste of resources
The best way to win from 6 is to quit and claim that you were afk.
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against the 9/11 dual from 6, i'd put a barracks at s9 blocking path to 9 and just cat 9, or try chopping in to one of the spots. 9 has alot of spots to chop in from
U dont think peon scouting from 6 is a waste of resources
No.. it's actually a really good strategy from 6.. send one peon up to s9/9/11 and another to 4/5 and see if you can create a situation where you are ahead ..statistical odds are one of those spots will be hot. 5 spots scouted vs 2 unscouted ( 12 and 2 o clock) .. ur probably screwed if 12 2 hit but makes for a fun game if one of the other spots is hot.
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ur probably screwed if 12 2 hit but makes for a fun game if one of the other spots is hot.
Thats the main issue with a peon scout from 6
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Gotta play the odds sometimes
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Gotta play the odds sometimes
What do you know about playing the odds tk?
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I'm a pretty good blackjack and Texas Hold'em player
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g)
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[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g[/url])
the audio clip you took the time to find, and add in around 7:30 tells me you're just as fucking nutty as i thought you were.
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[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_FJ7vaY0g[/url])
the audio clip you took the time to find, and add in around 7:30 tells me you're just as fucking nutty as i thought you were.
Your first mistake was clicking on the link.
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nah.. was a good video to watch. he did what he should have done.. his auto-chop at 6 to make room for the 2nd barracks tells you he was going to rush hard no matter who was where .. but it worked out.
it probably wouldnt have worked if lux scouted deep in and saw the 2nd barracks (i dont think he did)
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the chop for rax itself was stupid though.. different building placement would have made room for a 2nd rax without the need to chop... his 2nd rax does provide a choke point but it's entirely possible to create the same choke with farms... so instead of wasting time chopping, could be getting early gold because 6 sucks for gold.. and here you are chopping shit =/
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tk you're like tier 4 come on bro
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tk you're like tier 4 come on bro
yamon you've never been better than me.
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tk you're like tier 4 come on bro
yamon you've never been better than me.
Challenge yamon to his master tag if u think u better tk.
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I quit war2.. yamon has good games.. I have good games.. we have different styles.. but we're pretty equal in skill and always have been assuming were both at same level of activity
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You're definitely not equal in skill dude, Yamon just beat Lux in a challenge. You're not on that level
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poor tk losin it
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that video was fuking hilarious
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You're definitely not equal in skill dude, Yamon just beat Lux in a challenge. You're not on that level
They have different styles.. apparently lux's style doesn't do well against yamon. Mine does.
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It's funny listening to someone who has never watched me and yamon play make claims that they are literally clueless about.. like "you don't know what you're talking about... those games you played yamon that I never watched mean nothing!"
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Anyone here see the lux yamon games? Bet I know when the tables obviously turned in yamon favor.. right around 1st expansion time frame.. I haven't seen the games but I know how yamon plays.
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i already told you that i was rusty when we played. It's not my fault your pride told yourself that i wasn't. You don't stand a chance against me.
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We've played more than a couple games and you were actively playing during all of them.
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You get like 18 peons, rush to lust and try to conserve all resources, then attack while enemy is spending resources expanding.. you save like 1300 gold so you can expand afterwards. .
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Very similar to how braviet played when him and cow used to constantly 1v1
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And the whole time they think you're ahead, when really you're just spending resources differently.. and because they think you're ahead they play conservatively which gives you freedom to expand without much defence
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U know I dont doubt that you may know yamons play style well. However last I checked you the one dodging him, so it doesn't really matter.
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Tora.. the longer u are admin, the bigger of a pretentious douche bag you seem to become. Was a challenge made? Did I not just say like 3 times in the last week I'm done with war2? Are you at any skill level to engage in these discussions? Find something useful to do with admin
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Anyone here see the lux yamon games? Bet I know when the tables obviously turned in yamon favor.. right around 1st expansion time frame.. I haven't seen the games but I know how yamon plays.
nah not really.
Game 1 - GOW. Lux wins 12/2 neighbor war from 2.
Game 2 - GOW. Yamon wins from 9/11 dual against 2 with first wave of lusted ogres after Lux fails to break 9.
Game 3 - POS low. Lux wins by towering and catting Yamon's sealed in base.
Game 4 - World Dom bne/f. Yamon wins by Lux possibly never playing that map. Lux leaves after Yamon's first blizzard. Lux would have lost this one to just about any world dom player.
Game 5 - Gseps low. Yamon wins in an unorthodox neighbor war.
Game 6 - Four Corners low. Didn't watch this one.
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Tora.. the longer u are admin, the bigger of a pretentious douche bag you seem to become. Was a challenge made? Did I not just say like 3 times in the last week I'm done with war2? Are you at any skill level to engage in these discussions? Find something useful to do with admin
what a perfectly convenient time to say that you're on my level. when you don't have to play me.
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I have nothing against TK, he's a very good drunk, but when it comes to war2 he has nothing on Yamon - permitted Yamon plays to the best of his own abilities.
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Yamon wasn't always very good, so actually I can sort of understand why tk would think he's on Yamon's level, but once the guy starts beating Lux that should be a hint he's probably moved up
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Yamon I've said it multiple times, and multiple times we've played, and multiple times the series came out even or close to even..
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Yamon is no better today than he was a year or two ago.. his competition is just a bunch of people who play a couple times a week instead of every day.. so he looks better.
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The community is literally dying more and more every year.. a decent player a year ago is going to look like a top player today
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Also.. lux is 4-2 vs yamon on gown ef.
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Go look at ladder.. start looking at players records, then see how they do vs other players.. it's not going to take long to realize it's impossible to say "player a is better than player B" .. because you will see player A lost to player C but player B crushed player c .. it's just different styles folks.
Perfect example.. I played dugz like 3 months ago while he was surfing and he ROLLED me .. hard.. but if I know I'm playing dugz I change my style and have no problem going even with him
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The community is literally dying more and more every year.. a decent player a year ago is going to look like a top player today
Do you have examples? Its not like players can't improve over that time span.
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^^ I agree I believe players improve each passing year. Which is why a player like Swagier can now beat a player like Viruz on a consistent basis.
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The community is literally dying more and more every year.. a decent player a year ago is going to look like a top player today
Do you have examples? Its not like players can't improve over that time span.
they can .. but most have already peaked out a long time ago. the most obvious evidence of this for me is that if i feel like i'm pretty much peaked out .. like i get to the point where i'm like "shit.. i cant time my peons any better, manage resources any better, continuously scout any better, hold my own expansions/prevent them from expanding any better.. im playing as good as i ever will without investing a lot more hours per/week into this game" .. and that's typically i'm typically playing like 30+ hours a week when i get to that point.
so when i peak out the game becomes boring and i quit.. sometimes for just a little bit, sometimes for a long time ... and then i come back and have a lot of rust because it doesnt take long for me to rust at all.. so i play the same people i was playing before i left and they crush me .. but after a month or two (takes me a really long to unrust also) i'm right back where i was, and the people who had been playing continuously while i was gone (someone like spb) is at pretty much the same skill level as before i left.. maybe a little bit of new tricks or his style has changed a bit, but there are players who someone like myself can guage themselves on .. and i personally know i haven't got any better, but im competing right back where i was with those players
another thing i notice ... typically once a player peaks out (especially if they're considered like top 1,2 or 3 player for their time .. they get bored and quit war2 before too long. so the top players at the time have little competition, get bored, quit, and the lower skilled players take their place as top players, but they were never as good as the top player who left before them.
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^^ I agree I believe players improve each passing year. Which is why a player like Swagier can now beat a player like Viruz on a consistent basis.
swagier can beat viruz for 3 reasons .. swagier has got a lot better in the last couple years no doubt.. but swagier is much more active than viruz ... so when you're watching them compete, you're watching someone who is active 6 months or more of the year (swag) play someone who is active 2 months or less out of the year (viruz) ...
and when swag is the best competition the server has to offer, viruz isnt going to surpass him by much. some rare players (like swift.. ruz.. ) can play at pretty much any level their best competition is at.. if swift/ruz played 100 games in a week against eachother, swag probably wouldnt do so well against them if he played one of them after their 100 game series
... if i personally go play with say ilyich, tora, mousetopher, jos, or igognito non-stop for a week or two ... im going to get worse.. but if i go jump in some games with who we consider top players for a week or two i will get back to where i was.
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I have nothing against TK, he's a very good drunk, but when it comes to war2 he has nothing on Yamon - permitted Yamon plays to the best of his own abilities.
i mean that's about all there is to it. Your theory crafting isn't helping your case.
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TKs analysis is an enjoyable read to me in general, but i dont like when he attempts to compare himself to other players//get his ego involved. Cuz then it turns into an inaccurate shitfest :(
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^^ I agree I believe players improve each passing year. Which is why a player like Swagier can now beat a player like Viruz on a consistent basis.
swagier can beat viruz for 3 reasons .. swagier has got a lot better in the last couple years no doubt.. but swagier is much more active than viruz ... so when you're watching them compete, you're watching someone who is active 6 months or more of the year (swag) play someone who is active 2 months or less out of the year (viruz) ...
and when swag is the best competition the server has to offer, viruz isnt going to surpass him by much. some rare players (like swift.. ruz.. ) can play at pretty much any level their best competition is at.. if swift/ruz played 100 games in a week against eachother, swag probably wouldnt do so well against them if he played one of them after their 100 game series
... if i personally go play with say ilyich, tora, mousetopher, jos, or igognito non-stop for a week or two ... im going to get worse.. but if i go jump in some games with who we consider top players for a week or two i will get back to where i was.
woot? its not about how many games u need to play, its about how many games u need to play to GROW UP YOUR OWN SKILL, I played "only"
8k games since 2006 when this server start, i was few times inactive year or more, whenever i came back my skill GROW UP, there are many players who got X more games than me but they cant win vs me
For example there are many chop players, and they play one map again, again, again but they are still bad and i can still play with them and win vs them ( i am talking about 4x4 not 1x1 since best chop is 4x4)
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I have nothing against TK, he's a very good drunk, but when it comes to war2 he has nothing on Yamon - permitted Yamon plays to the best of his own abilities.
i mean that's about all there is to it. Your theory crafting isn't helping your case.
you gonna be online tomorrow? if so what time .. we will play 15 games or so to see how they go. i say 15 games because it will give both of us time to adapt to eachother's play for a few games.. and after about 5 games it will be noticable if one of us is much better than the other.
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TKs analysis is an enjoyable read to me in general, but i dont like when he attempts to compare himself to other players//get his ego involved. Cuz then it turns into an inaccurate shitfest :(
i dont like it when other players pretend to be at skill levels they are not.. especially when they get other players to believe it.
most of us gow/ef players (with a few exceptions) are at pretty much the same skill level .. just with different styles that work better or worse against other players.
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you gonna be online tomorrow? if so what time .. we will play 15 games or so to see how they go. i say 15 games because it will give both of us time to adapt to eachother's play for a few games.. and after about 5 games it will be noticable if one of us is much better than the other.
I can pitch in 0.2$ in the winner prize pool!
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I have nothing against TK, he's a very good drunk, but when it comes to war2 he has nothing on Yamon - permitted Yamon plays to the best of his own abilities.
i mean that's about all there is to it. Your theory crafting isn't helping your case.
you gonna be online tomorrow? if so what time .. we will play 15 games or so to see how they go. i say 15 games because it will give both of us time to adapt to eachother's play for a few games.. and after about 5 games it will be noticable if one of us is much better than the other.
I gotta see that. Please stream guys
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nobody believe in warvideos no more?
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TKs analysis is an enjoyable read to me in general, but i dont like when he attempts to compare himself to other players//get his ego involved. Cuz then it turns into an inaccurate shitfest :(
i dont like it when other players pretend to be at skill levels they are not.. especially when they get other players to believe it.
most of us gow/ef players (with a few exceptions) are at pretty much the same skill level .. just with different styles that work better or worse against other players.
how many styles u got?
early game: rax, mill, dual
rax -> safe bulid
dual -> u need more skill to survive dual fe s9/9 vs counter dual
mill -> u are going tower rush ur enemy if u fail in first 2 mins u can leave ( we talk about players got same skill)
mid game : rush, rush hard 2 rax, power
late game:
play agressive dont let your enemy exp
play defensive: only def attack sometimes and make lot of exp
STOP TALKING ABOUT STYLES TK LUL
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translator please
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What do you dont understand?
WELCOME BACK TO W2
AGAIN XDDDDDD
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I have nothing against TK, he's a very good drunk, but when it comes to war2 he has nothing on Yamon - permitted Yamon plays to the best of his own abilities.
i mean that's about all there is to it. Your theory crafting isn't helping your case.
you gonna be online tomorrow? if so what time .. we will play 15 games or so to see how they go. i say 15 games because it will give both of us time to adapt to eachother's play for a few games.. and after about 5 games it will be noticable if one of us is much better than the other.
yeah i'll be on tomorrow.
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time?
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szwag.. i'll play tonight because i havent been playing in a while. gotta warm up.. then play yamon tomorrow .. then im off war2 and forums.
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szwag.. i'll play tonight because i havent been playing in a while. gotta warm up.. then play yamon tomorrow .. then im off war2 and forums.
no1 belive.. u said it many times
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i never say "im done with war2" .. i've said "ill be gone for a while" and then im gone for a while ...
so.. i'll play tampon tomorrow to prove a point.
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Yamon.. what time u typically play on saturday?
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Yamon.. what time u typically play on saturday?
lets play right now i'm online
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I just said I haven't played at all in a while. pay attention tampon...
Or u probably were paying attention and we're hoping I'd be like "yeah my rusty ass will play you peaked out right now"
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I just said I haven't played at all in a while.my pay attention tampon...
then lets play bo15
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I'm gonnabe playing some games tonight against other people.. what time are u available tomorrow
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I'm gonnabe playing some games tonight against other people.. what time are u available tomorrow
lets do 8:00 pm
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Central?
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eastern
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Sounds good bunion
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You guys going to stream? I wanna promote this matchup on Facebook.
TK[AS] vs Yamon 8:00pm eastern. You guys will get loads of views
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Hey was just waiting to get home to ask if I could get another watcher spot again to stream this for you guys + work some more on my commentary. People seemed to enjoy the last series, and even if only GOW I think a BO15 would be fun to call.
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does anyone want to bet against yamon?
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Yeah ill add ur stream to the advertisement
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ill stream with a 3-4 min delay
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ill stream with a 3-4 min delay
Awesome, yamon u streaming too?
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ill stream with a 3-4 min delay
Awesome, yamon u streaming too?
no i asked mousey to stream it
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I hope we get to see a 6/12 battle ;D
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noice! Looking forward to it! Tora, I hope you & others will be in the games too, it's nice to have the in-game commentary & banter ;D
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ill stream with a 3-4 min delay
Awesome, yamon u streaming too?
no i asked mousey to stream it
why wouldnt u stream...
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Cool thing about Warcraft is every game is truly unique. There is no such thing as an unbeatable strat for 12 to execute, nor is there a silver bullet strategy for 6. There is pretty much an effective counter for every strategy, the trick comes down to making the proper reads and continually tailoring your response to their own counter responses. You need to define all the parameters of the pros and cons of 6 and also have a clear idea of strats and builds you wish to incorporate into your arsenal. Slow gold from 6 early on means you’re vulnerable early on, so a defensive posture is typically advisable at that stage. You can use the tree line for a choke point, but you will usually get hit before you have time to fill that space. They can reverse choke your buildings and then you spend money repairing or weaken your rush by having to build a tower. You can use good UC, pick off early scout grunts and get a numbers advantage and reverse choke 12 or 2 and make him rep early or get D. You also need to build in a way where its easy to defend the farms in your ot spot, that don’t take a peon out of commission and that doesn’t become an easy soft target for them to exploit. You don’t even have to farm your back, you can just run to s9 and keep up the rush 2 halled. 6 Has really fast lumber if you build your mill properly on the back left bottom side and don’t waste space. It’s good to have a choke point up top for a scout and a fall back choke point as well. Good Rax positioning for a fast seamless flow to your army can be an issue. As mid and late game approaches 6’s gold becomes less of an issue and you can blow your mine at nearly the same time as 12/2. Most people don’t notice cuz they kind of p stop a little here n there but if you’re a relentless pumper you will notice 12’s gold slows and clogs and has to manually be adjusted. 6 has a GREAT flow for many peons, most people kind of peon stop though which you should try to avoid unless you’re trying to survive or think you’ve identified when they will be weakest then you can really go for the kill. Don’t go keep too soon! a lot of people starve their resources going keep too fast thinking 1st to keep is 1st to Lust. Doesn’t work that way, you can rep harder or have more to throw at them b4 late game and at least match lust. Continually scout them and make observations, slow levels, early 1 or 2 rax, choke points, know their tendencies, early mill , hard rush, gt or cat for D. 12/2 people try to win with a sledge hammer instead of a hammer and will either super hard rush or go for that fast power ( they’re better off just using a hammer vs some1 awake) Your job from 6 is to use a chisel and pick them apart piece by piece while buying time early on.
Scouting, tactics and instinct are what help you with your strat selection. Tactics are automatic reactions and require no thought, when they make a mistake or don’t seize an opportunity you press your advantage like reverse choke, lumber bash, lure. Some examples of popular 12/2 strats and their weakest points:
12 - 1 rax make 7 lvl 3 grunts for a 3v2 choke and pop a cat (cheaper than a tower)
Cons - Early mill weakens their rush at that early stage and it takes a while to make a catapult.
Counter- P stop rush with an ot Hidden or in their FACE, just make them repair a little before cat ups slow their econ n tech. Begin farming in a counter dual early on since they can’t kill it yet. 4v3 choke easier to break especially if you have levels before focus attack and run in , hide a 2nd rax near 12/2 and pop a cat or run it from 6 but that takes a while
2 rax hard rush -
Cons - Slower lust
You can match his lust, even if he’s slightly ahead you can run your ogers at him by his base and try to engage , hit and run style and weaken delay his path to 6, essentially anything to divert him and if you’ve been scouting properly all game you will be able to anticipate if you need a gt or 2…. I try to stay away from ct’s cuz that can really slow your offense for a little.
The slow scouter strat -
This is probably the hardest strat to execute but you hide raxes under or above 2. You can defend 6 with 4-5 GTs only if you have good peon uc and let almost no peons die. While you’re about to cat 2 or back door his line with lvl 1 grunts. Fun if you like a challenge or you’re playing a shitty player.
Yeah, basically you have to keep making reads and chisel away at him or just survive until late game if he’s solid. Expand your arsenal of counters, your execution will be flawed at 1st but eventually more things will start to click and make sense. Have fun with it you have nothing to lose since you’re the under dog. Oddly 12 is usually the 1 playing like a pussy rush luster.
--- I would bet on TK, especially if he's active. Swift just loves backing his 2 man war2 fan club. Can I be your war2 lacky?
What are the requirements?
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is there someone willing to mini-bet on tk? I want to bet 5$ on yamon!! to me, it was clear that yamon is gooder, but since opinions are divided and this IS a hyped bo15....
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@paperboy I love the details. Ill need to reread that thanks
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funny that people can admit 6 is terrible and come up with huge posts on how to maybe come close to breaking even with a player of your level (if youre lucky), yet still defend gow old as perfect and great and refuse to play a slightly fixed version of it.
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I don't think that people defend it as being perfect in the sense that it is actually balanced. It is a great map because of the unbalanced gameplay imo. If you play a map with no built in imbalances, generally the better player is going to win and the strategy starts to become symmetrical across the map. Think gow bne/f for example. Every spot can be dualed and every spot can rush. There aren't very many weaknesses early game for any base. In old ef, sometimes skill can be hidden based on spots and their inherent weaknesses. We already have people who refuse to play people better than they are on w2. Imagine how much less they'd play if it was 100% clear who was better. Old/ef allows that information to be a bit muddy. Take this tk vs yamon challenge for example. Because of the map, it is not likely that one will sweep the other and there is a general difference in opinion who is better. If they both play at the top of their current skill level, yamon should be a heavy favorite to win this. That doesn't mean that he will win every game though. Going like 10-5 in the series will only serve to leave the loser hope that he is almost equal in skill and allow the debate to continue.
There also is nothing better than winning from 6/8 vs any other spot. So victories from those spots feel like they count for more even though after a few days no one will care because they'll only look at the overall record which doesn't account for any of that. All that to say, a slight unbalancing such as old/ef keeps players coming back to play it just like blackjack keeps people coming back in Vegas. People just know that if things break their way, they'll win.
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Yeah I'm a big fan of the better player winning barring mistakes or the other player playing exceptionally so I dont agree with you on a fundamental level.
Particularly when so many people use 6 as a built-in excuse when they lose. I'm not advocating for complete map symmetry. I just don't understand why people are so against very minor changes to 6/8 to make them closer to the other bases.
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All that to say, a slight unbalancing such as old/ef keeps players coming back to play
but it shouldn't be a shitty unbalancing (plain old worse spot), rather something to promote diversity. difference in mine capacity, amount of buildings it takes to wall, amount of space within the spot, accessibility to wood, proneness to towering or chopouts...
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but it shouldn't be a shitty unbalancing (plain old worse spot), rather something to promote diversity. difference in mine capacity, amount of buildings it takes to wall, amount of space within the spot, accessibility to wood, proneness to towering or chopouts...
yeah I completely agree.
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I'm looking at it from the point of view of the newer player and how many times they'd be willing to play something they can't win at. They are more likely to learn the map and how to get better if they get a win here and there. I'm sure there are other ways to unbalance maps but this one just happened to fall into the sweet spot of being a blizzard original and having survived over time.
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Tk what was the final score?
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Tk what was the final score?
yamon 12 tk 2
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I was wrong. Ggs. Time to suck less in life than in war2; ).
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBBzkJhF2o#)
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i was right. Unfortuntely nobody accepted the 5$ bait... sry i meant bet
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Who's next up vs Yamon bo15?
Shall it be a rematch vs LuX?
Claw?
Tora?
PB?
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ATM i (probably) have a bo7 against chopstyx on chopchop comin' soon. And i was told knitter is the easiest victim!
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love the montage burnt, you could of even made it a montage parody.
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Who's next up vs Yamon bo15?
Shall it be a rematch vs LuX?
Claw?
Tora?
PB?
I vote for Van, Sepi, or Greenplastic
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love the montage burnt, you could of even made it a montage parody.
dammit, i miss $pace.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQbp4FqClyY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQbp4FqClyY)
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Id like to see GP or medivh take the master tag challenge
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i think it would be good if masters shared their preferred settings so you could put it in a post somewhere. It would be easier for me to determine who my opponent should be! Just a thought
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i think it would be good if masters shared their preferred settings so you could put it in a post somewhere. It would be easier for me to determine who my opponent should be! Just a thought
Ill get it done
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Good call. Maybe I can make a page on the ladder that lists players by tier & also the info about the challenge. Will need to discuss with Igog but should hopefully be able to start using the tier part of the new Elo system soon
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Yes, that will be easy to do!
:)
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Just wanna quote my own top recommendation again here :)
I'm assuming people get a +/- Elo bump at the time a ladder game is reported? If so, perhaps we could show that on the player.php page.
Example:
00Logan (#4) defeated SPB- (#12) on "Garden of War" for +35 Elo points at 03:20:45 on 11/10/2016.
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Good call. Maybe I can make a page on the ladder that lists players by tier & also the info about the challenge. Will need to discuss with Igog but should hopefully be able to start using the tier part of the new Elo system soon
How does tiered elo work...
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Idk if it's really "tiered elo", you can think of it as just associating a tier value w/ all the users in the ladder database. It'll have to be manually assigned, we know who's in tier 1 & we have those lists people did a little while ago (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2521.html (http://forum.war2.ru/index.php/topic,2521.html)) that we can use as a starting point for others. Right now it's set up to use 7 tiers but maybe fewer would be better, input is welcome.
Could also maybe eventually add some logic for automatically promoting people, e.g. if you win a bo5 with a higher tier player you get moved up to that tier, or something.
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The player's tier alters the K parameter for gaining ELO.
For that reason I have not yet presented it. The idea is that Master players will earn/lose at slower rate.
This is in general the rule for ELO.
When we start having representative elo scores we will set the tier levels!
Another solution would be to give a one time boost to some players. But I don't like that.
Anyhow, suggestions are welcome!
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Lol 12-2'd by Yamon. Definite retirement inducing rape.
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12/2 right in the thread name... conspiracy
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wow. holy shit
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mm8FumurM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mm8FumurM)
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o
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nice vids!
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vid #2 has banned music so youtube wont allow me to watch lol
btw ive watched lots of viruz games and he does seem to stop at lvl 6 for some reason. makes no sense
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vid 3 blocked as well
and even though vid 1 worked holy shit the song changed every 20 seconds for some reason. also not a very interesting game.