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Topics - Pandaprewmaster325

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General Discussion / Warcraft 2 Remaster what to expect?
« on: November 09, 2024, 09:19:03 AM »
Hello guys today I would like to discuss the upcoming remaster for this game , what things I hope to see being included and more.

First gameplay:

So as you know this game is really old and sadly the gameplay suffers from this now back in 1995 warcraft 2 was great RTS probably the best on the market it helped the RTS genre greatly but the RTS grew fast and soon warcraft 2 found itself in a playground with other RTS who built upon the foundation of blizzard RTS these games however were having a better time like the age of empires games or the CNC games , blizzard would drop starcaft I didn't get to try the RTS behemoth or legend yet but it surely sounds an impressive RTS game.

Well while starcaft was something warcraft in terms of new games was just hanging there , lord of the clans game would be cancelled and blizzard would publish some books no new warcraft until wc3 which was a huge even gigantic leap in terms of gameplay comparing both warcraft 2 and 3 would seem unfair wc3 just wins in every regard to gameplay I would explain more in a bit.

So whats the problem with warcraft 2 gameplay and how can the remaster hopefully solves this?  There is lot that happened in RTS since wc2 was released , rally points , multiple units queue , and better UI design , mechanics becoming more automated like age of empires 2 in its original expansion introducing auto farming (if farms runs out of food the worker automatically rebuilt it).

Well one thing that will a quality of life improvement would be rally points and queuing multiple units instead  of the system that is in war2 currently you all know it so im not gonna explain it.

Another thing would be better UI , and more communicating with the player about an upgrade finishing or a gold mine collapsing  , as it stands you have to press on the unit effected by upgrade to see whether the upgrade was finished or not , so a simple sound effect or a message like "upgrade complete (upgrade name)" is really nice and won't hurt the game in anyway.

Rally points one thing I hate about older RTS like age of empires 1 and warcraft 2 is you can't do rally points each peasant or worker that finishes training has to be manually tasked with a job its TEDIOUS there is no fun in assigning every new worker to wood you can just place the rally point on wood and every new worker goes go wood it helps make the game a lot smoother and make it play in a less clunky manner.

Now this is quite essential I would say the most important out of all has to be pathfinding there is nothing more frustrating than an RTS with crappy pathfinding you be sometimes annoyed already and switch back to your expansion just to find the workers all blocked by a silly rock wasting maybe couple seconds to few minutes of income and it can be agitating having to constantly babaysit units near mountains and ships near islands cuz they have a hard time finding out whether this area is water or ground getting stuck in the most unnecessary times when cannon balls are flying left and right and your transport decides to pause on a very easily avoidable obstacle but nope that 1995 pathfinding makes it stop there and get by a cannon ball IT COULD HAVE EASILY AVOIDED , having to deal with such stupidity on top of other outdated elements all make the experience less fun and more frustrating so I really hope they fix this one its the most important of all.



Now finally to my favorite topic balance :

I have talked a lot about balance of this game especially on this site and that's because good balance helps to make a game feel good to play , feel fair , and feel fun well sadly warcraft 2 lacks substance in its balance well what do I mean by substance? It lacks depth , nuance for example an engagement between a grunt and a footman is solely determined on who hits first if we include upgrades it becomes on who has 1 more upgrade once you max upgrades it returns to who hits first or has more numbers or who has more higher health footmen/grunts ,there is no room for lets say other factors like different stats auras etc.

That's why warcraft 3 engagements are much better a fight between footmen and grunts could swing in one or the other depending on much more than who hits first most of the time , auras play a role heroes with different items and levels the unique upgrades for each unit helps  influence their performance (footmen don't really a unique upgrade to help them in melee vs melee) the longer kill time allows for skill expression the food and upkeep system makes it more interesting as footmen would outnumber grunts thus makes the situation where the outnumbered orcs win look better rewarding the orc player for using his few in number grunts quite well.

Now im not saying make warcraft 2 play like warcraft 3 no no warcraft 3 is unique because of how its designed copying and pasting it to warcraft 2 wouldn't work instead changing this lame balance of mirror units , giving some spells autocast would help make the game more interesting truth is warcraft 2 doesn't have to be super complex no sometimes its ok to play a simple game and if simplicity help the game then that might be the route to take look at red alert 2 its not complex or have deep combat mechanics it just happens that the soviets and allies are very unique and distinct allowing for unique interactions and gameplay plans well thats how it supposed to be multiplayer in red alert 2 is prism tank spam.

Well I think it goes that more complex games have better multiplayer as the skill ceiling is higher however too much complexity would alienate new comers and push away new players look at arena shooters for example like quake its fast paced gameplay combined with very high skill ceiling damaged the game rather than help it so there needs to be this good spot where its not too simple that it becomes bland and shallow and not too complex that it becomes hard to understand.

What im trying to say the remaster needs to address the issues of the outdated gameplay bring some features from warcraft 3 and its gonna play well it doesn't have to be the best RTS experience whether its singleplayer or multiplayer it just has to be good which is what this game currently lacks A good gameplay.

What do YOU want from the remaster? Do you have any hopes?

Oh and one final thing im somewhat conflicted on the remaster on one hand blizzard is the company famous for its workers stealing breast milk and releasing crappy games these few past years on the other hand hope is kicking in pretty hard knowing how successful Microsoft RTS title (age of empires) is these days I can't help but dream big for the remaster.

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General Discussion / Warcraft 2 REMASTER?
« on: November 05, 2024, 03:26:12 PM »
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Can it happen? Will blizzard remaster tides of darkness?

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Flame Wars & Offtopic / USA ELECTIONS 2024
« on: October 19, 2024, 02:01:50 PM »
So as you know the land of the free , the epitome of democracy is having elections pretty soon.


Now whether you are American or not the whole world watches as the most powerful country in the world elects a new leader with policies that will effect the world and America so with that in mind , who will win this race?

- Donald trump the walking republican gold mine of memes?

-kamala harris well I got nothing to say about her other than her weird laugh


Or maybe neither of those? Isn't it about time someone who isn't a republican or a democrat wins an election?




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As you probably know a project for rewriting warcraft 3 using java is being developed known as "warsmash"

Now since warcraft 2 is a game with much less stuff in it than warcraft 3 lets say I want to rewrite this game , improve the pathfinding cuz its really awful especially with cliffs and water , can it be done using java? Note that I have no idea how coding works im not a programmer but maybe this can sow the seeds of this idea in someone else head someone talented enough.

What else to add? Better pathfinding comparable to wc3 , maybe add ability to see mana bars and health bars ? Just like warcraft 3 too.

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Flame Wars & Offtopic / 2024 a notable year for RTS?
« on: September 25, 2024, 11:59:28 AM »
Been seeing a steep rise of RTS games in the past few years mostly because of the success of remastering the age series , while sadly the RTS remaster for warcraft  that is wc3 reforged was a disaster which  lets just say shattered any hope of even seeing warcraft 2 remaster.

Now I don't want this to turn into a crying post of warcraft getting treated badly by blizzard I mean come on its cow that has been milked and beaten to death , however back to our topic that is the RTS has been gaining more attention lately thanks to as I said the remaster of the age series , company of heroes 3 and most notably stormgate the spiritual successor of blizzard RTS games.

Stormgate seems to have been in a rocky start seeing people complaining a lot about the game in its early access phase hope was starting to fade but very recently the developers  released a substantial update that enhanced the game graphics and many other improvements.

Also another RTS that is in the waiting is tempest rising the spiritual successor of the command and conquer series I would say this one is very important as you probably know the CNC franchise is the face of the RTS genre.

Overall the 2020s seem to be pretty good for RTS as its gaining back some mainstream attention 2024 specifically is pretty big as I said before stormgate is very anticipated

A question I want to ask maybe think a bit about it  , if stormgate succeeds and so does tempest rising will we see a new golden age of RTS ?

Thanks for reading.

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Strategy & Replays / Nation specific bonuses
« on: September 04, 2024, 09:07:55 AM »
Hello people , today I will propose a list of human nation bonuses that fit each nation and help give them more unique flavor a reminder these are simply imaginary bonuses and will not be implemented in anyway or shape or form in warcraft 2 HOWEVER I may make a warcraft 3 custom map using this post and the orcish clans one warcraft 3 already has custom second war era assets that could be used to create accurate depictions of warcraft 2 factions won't ramble too long about this so lets get started:

Nation of azeroth
-destroying enemy buildings grants 25% of the building cost as resources
-town halls cost 25% less gold
-archers/rangers +15% faster attack speed
-paladins +1 speed


Nation of kultiras
-ships cost 10% less resources
-peasants +5 health
-foundry upgrades 15% cheaper
-battleships +1 speed

Nation of  stromgarde
-all human melee units +1 attack (peasant/footman/knight)
-ballista +10 attack
-paladins attack 10% faster
-footman +2 LOS

Nation of dalaran
-buildings +20 HP
-mages cost 25% less resources
-Mages +2 speed
-paladins double regeneration speed

Nation of alterac
-peasants cost 25% less resources
-peasants carry capacity +5
-keep/castle upgrades cost 10% less resources
-upgrading to castle doesn't require stables

Nation of gilneas
-rangers upgrade and its subsequent upgrades 50% cheaper
-oil tankers +10 carry capacity
-paladin is automatically researched once castle upgrade is finished
-towers effected by archer upgrades

Nation of lordaeron
-footman starts with 4 base armor
-paladins +3 armor per armor upgrade
-all military units are effected by armor upgrades
-gryphon riders +2 speed


The bonuses for the humans don't include a lot of health bonuses as I like to reserve such buffs to the orcs the human bonuses are much more varied and interesting the displaced people of stromwind (azeroth) at the time were something akin to refugees so I think them scavenging enemy structures is fitting for them along with a decentralized command meaning its easier to build town halls , alterac is full on economical nation it is a wealthy yet weak nation  their weak military however is aided by superior economy allowing alterac to unlock powerful units early on to supplement their lack of any military bonus that helps their army early on , the nation of lordaeron is the teutons from age of empires 2 dressed in warcraft fashion LOL heavy focus on armor and durability through armor.

I would like to bring this to life using the warcraft 3 map editor or maybe even the warcraft 2 map editor if it proves capable of doing some of the things I mentioned above time will tell.

Thanks for reading and stay hydrated.

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Strategy & Replays / Clan specific bonuses
« on: August 25, 2024, 01:47:05 PM »
Hey forum people , so the other day I had an idea what if warcraft 2 had bonuses that make each faction unique something like age of empires series where units are mostly the same between civilisations but the difference is the perks and quirks each civilisation gives.

So I asked myself what if we apply same logic to warcraft 2 factions well warcraft 2 has the alliance and the horde but each faction consists of multiple clans for orcs and nations for humans today I will focus on ZE orcs.

Note: keep in mind unlike my previous balance change proposals where its possible to change the game these are clan specific bonuses which I doubt the game can identify each "sub" faction and give them their bonuses as such unlike the balance proposals that will be made into a mod (coming early 2025) this is purely for fun and will not be made into a data mod.

So the game will be kept as it is no balance changes to base units the changes will be clan specific only BUT there will be 3 general balance changes these are universal they are:

1- bloodlust effect halved
2-healing 3 mana per 1 HP
3- farms give 5 food instead of 4


Lets start:

-blackrock clan:
-grunts start with 3 base armor
-catapults are effected by armor upgrades
-blacksmith upgrades 25% cheaper
-peons are effected by attack and armor upgrades


Blacktooth grin clan:
-grunts +10 health
-grunts +3 armor per armor upgrade
-goblin sappers +10 damage
-goblin zepplin +2 speed

Bleeding hollow clan:
-trolls attacks 15% faster
-grunts attack 10% faster
-peons +5 health
-trolls +1 speed

Dragonmaw clan:
-dragon roost available at tier 2 (stronghold)
-dragons attack 10% faster
-dragons 25% cheaper
-farms and towers cost 15% less resources

Twilight hammer clan:
-all barracks units train %10 faster
-ogre magi start with 120 mana
-catapults attack 15% faster
-death and decay area of effect increased by 5%

Stromreaver clan:
-all temple of the damned upgrades cost 30% less resources
-death knights  double mana  regeneration
-all ships +10 health
-shipyards built 30% faster

Burning blade clan:
-grunts +3  attack per attack upgrade
-grunts +1 attack
-ogres/ogre magi +10 health
-ogre magi +1 attack




These are the clan specific bonuses made to fit each clan theme and give unique take on gameplay  you have the blacktooth grin with tanky grunts capable of exploiting breakthroughs done by higher damage dealing sappers , dragonmaw whom sole focus is well dragons but to make them reach that point they must survive a defensive bonus does that pretty well , you have the burning blade melee focused clan with high damage grunts and more durable ogres , and the twilight hammer with faster training units they can rush pretty early .

This  might be possible to turn into a custom map but I don't know of the limits of warcraft 2 map editor while I would prefer a universal data mod to allow this to be played in all maps with sorts of terrain and schemes I don't think its possible tho that would require confirmation of people who delved into the side of modding warcraft 2.

If you have any alternate takes on the clan bonuses voice your thoughts [thots]  in ze comments

Peace.

8
Strategy & Replays / Rebalancing warcraft 2: human edition
« on: August 15, 2024, 06:15:37 AM »
Hello people , previously I have proposed a rebalance of the orcs making them head more towards melee units and brute strength more than anything else I didn't get much feedback on the orc rebalance as such I would like to receive some even if only hypothetically.


So lets get started with humans first just as we asked before what do humans excel at? Well unlike the orcs who are almost always portrayed as these huge muscular warriors with axes human portrayal is somewhat diverse from human mages to the iconic footmen in steel armor , humans are characterized by being more intelligent than orcs and their armies more organized (footmen in wc3 were stated to fight in formations nothing the like of was mentioned for orcs) so with that in mind lets begin.


Humans:
Peasant: +1 attack , at dire times like the second war everyone is expected to defend humanity peasants are no exception.

Footman: +2 armor , I think you have seen this coming I foreshadowed it in the previous post

Archer: an attack speed reduction , while no numbers are given currently what I envision is allowing archers to fire 3 arrows while trolls fire 2 axes something akin to an arrow and a half per axe

Ranger: +1 armor , the only ranged unit to have some sort of armor effectiveness is yet to be determined , +1 movement speed , elves are believed to be more agile than trolls this and the attack speed should make excellent portrayal of this.

Knight: +1 armor

Paladin: +1 armor , double the mana regeneration , the paladins are an interesting unit as they take the role of supporting other units by healing with the only offensive ability being exorcism that only works against undead as such a paladin mana pool may be torn with these 2 costly mana spells this mana regeneration increase would help paladins cast their spells more often than ogre magi

Ballista: +10 attack , while catapults have area of effect damage a balliasta will be more effective against single targets , if possible ballista attack speed would be improved by basically making the "loading" for the shot take shorter time

Flying machine: +2 armor , focusing on survivability rather than effectiveness the gnomish flying machine is better protected than the goblin zepplin that offers a better line of sight

Demo squad: +2 armor and +5 health: this allows demo squads a higher chance of success compared to goblin sappers whom deal 10 more damage

Mage: +2 range , while the necromantic powers of the death knights do more harm the arcane powers of mages have better reach and effective range

Edit note: previously was to be +1 range but mages have 2 range instead of 3 so to give them range advantage over death knights they would get +2 range

Gryphon riders: +1 speed , +1 sight , +1 armor , this allows gryphons to be more maneuverable than dragons

With this the alliance land armies offer a supporting role for melee units having them with their high armor holding the line while the faster attacking archers and mages do the damage overall the humans would have mediocre melee units an excellent ranged unit and an ever stronger spellcasters now lets head to the navy

Tankers again need no changes

Elven destroyer: +1 sight +6 attack per attack upgrade

Transport ship: +2 carry capacity

Human battleship : +1 speed

Gnomish submarine: +5 armor

The alliance navy would  be faster to create than the durable orcish navy this allows humans an advantage over water control.

Upgrades/spells:
Archer attack upgrade: reduced cost from 300 gold and wood to 200 each

Archer attack upgrade 2: reduced gold cost from 900 to 600 , wood from 500 to 300

Heal: 3 mana per 1 HP this would mean for 30 mana it heals 10 health paladins should exit a barracks with around 90 mana allowing an instant 30 health restoration , research time decreased by 10 seconds

Exorcism: research time reduced by 10 seconds

Flame shield: -100 gold cost , will have longer cast range if possible to allow mages to cast it earlier , will last 10 seconds longer

Polymorph: -10 mana cost , to allow earlier casting time

This concludes it for the rebalancing mod it only exists as this post and the orc rebalance post some things might be changed somethings may be reversed if found too strong the human faction or the alliance would be more pushed towards elven archers and spell casters unlike orcs who could rely solely on melee units and should (theoretically) do well this is a bit more in line with the lore of how orcs aren't very organized savages who are born with warrior physique and would need little training to be effective meanwhile humans and their allies would require more coordination and organization to be effective unable to approach things with raw strength and having to do so in a more methodical approach let me hear or (see) your thoughts down in da comments.



Additional stuff:
-farms make 5 food instead of 4
Town halls give 10 food instead of 1
Grunts cost 675 gold
Ogres: cost 875 gold

Training speed stuff:
Alliance melee units would cost less gold but take more time to train
Footmen: +5 seconds training time
Knights: +5 seconds training time

Stuff that may or may not be implemented:
Gold cost changes:
1- peasants/peons: cost 100 gold
2-Footmen: 300 gold
3-Grunts: 375 gold
4-archers/trolls: 250 gold 50 wood
5-Knights: 600 gold 125 wood
6-Ogres: 675 gold 100 wood
7-Ballistas/catapults: 700 gold (still costs same wood cost)
8-flying machine/goblin zepplin: 400 gold , same wood cost
9-goblin sappers/dwarf demo squad: 500 gold , same wood cost
10-death knights/mages: 900 gold
11-gryphons/dragons: 2000 gold


This is a change of cost as to allow a bit more forgiving economy as it stands wc2 economy holds a tight grip around player freedom I may be the only one to see that wc2 gold costs for land units sucks or doesn't make much sense (seriously why would you pay 400 gold for some dude to carry some wood).

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General Discussion / Did fortnite cause gaming to become mainstream?
« on: August 14, 2024, 09:06:17 AM »
This is a simple question that I would like to ask the boomer filled community of this game do you think video games are mainstream entertainment now? What caused it to become one and at what point exactly personally I can see a shift when battle royal games became so famous people who never knew what a video game is were found discussing frames and video game UI and mechanics is it positive that gaming went mainstream?  Or nah? Nowadays you could easily find a gaymer back few years ago you hardly could find one in your surroundings what do you  think about this? 

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Flame Wars & Offtopic / HALF LIFE 3 COMING SOON?
« on: August 12, 2024, 08:23:04 AM »
Hey hey people I think you might have already heard  but there has been leaks that may possibly indicate half life 3 is being worked on in source 2


Source:
i=NEUo8J7jmJHaJhu9

Are you looking forward for this? Will we get HL3 before gta6?  :peon:

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Strategy & Replays / Rebalancing warcraft 2: orc edition
« on: August 06, 2024, 08:57:28 AM »
Hello guys , whoever is browsing this site at 3 am in the morning well its good to see you , ok lets get few things straight first warcraft 2 balance....its old the game will be 30 years old by 2025 visually its looks fine the soundtrack is the best warcraft can offer but the balance man....its not great if any warcraft fan even slightly looks into wc2 he would realize that bloodlust is insane it has been discussed to death but yes this ability needs a nerf the whole game needs a revamp for balance to make every unit unique grunts are footmen and footmen are grunts despite the fact that grunts wear less armor... Today post will be about the orcish race as I currently picked up wc2 for the first time its the dark saga edition on the ps1 I have tried the many remakes of wc2 in wc3 some differ from the others but overall its wc2 copied into wc3 engine the improvements are things like pathfinding and unit selection maximum being 12 but lets not deviate a lot from the topic.



how would we rebalance the orcs to be up to today standards? Ok maybe not the today standards (they are terrible just look at wow lore) but first we have to ask what do orcs do best? What are the orcs famous for? Its brute strength in almost every depiction of warcraft orcs they always looked larger than humans and significantly more muscular in wc3 the real big difference was made with grunts having 700 base health compared to footmen with 420 and peons with 250 health compared to peasants with 220 the difference was set orcs have higher durability humans have better equipment so we gonna translate that into warcraft 2 with its rusty pathfinding and no way points so lets begin

Orcs: orcs would have good melee units reliable enough to base your army around them their range unit the trolls would be something available but not necessary to include in every match  orcs would rely on strong melee mediocre ranged and good spell casters with a slow to start but capable navy buildings are unchanged.

Peon: peons would get +5 health this would help them survive few things maybe 1 more hit from a footman

Grunts: grunts would get +5 health and +1 attack (note none of this is tested yet as such its prone to change its possible to buff the health by +10 instead of +5 in case it wasn't enough)

Troll axe thrower: +5 health  trolls are stronger physically than elves , attack speed would be increased as to make ranged units better honestly ranged units in this game suck a reason for it is the slow attack speed  I currently have no access to the game data so I don't know the exact details of the stats but a buff to attack speed is needed no numbers given currently.

Troll berserker: regenerates health without needing an upgrade , (basically regeneration for free)

Catapults: area of effect damage increased  , the idea is to have catapults damage targets around the central target way more  since it seems splash damage deals around the target 25% damage it would be increased to  35-45%

Ogres: +5 health for base ogre

Ogre magi:+5 health and +1 attack

Death knights: +1 attack

Dragons: +20 health

Goblin zepplin: +1 line of sight

Goblin sappers: +10 dmg 

With this the orc land army would be capable enough while still lacking any sort of healing the better and tanky grunts and ogres would do most of the work trolls would be somewhat viable  with fast regeneration allowing them prolonged survival under fire giving them a chance to escape very melee oriented but we aren't done yet lets head to the navy

The tanker doesn't need any changes

Troll destroyer: +10 health  +10 seconds of build time , the orcs and their allies aren't the most sea faring people but they do build solid ships while lacking the immense experience of the elves and humans to construct battle ships quickly

Transport ships: starts with 1 base armor or gets +6 armor for each upgrade instead of 5

Ogre juggernaut: +50 health +25 seconds of build time 

Sea turtle: +10 or +15 health +10 seconds of build time

The orcish navy would have durability but would be slow to construct  perhaps a worthy trade off.

With the navy done lets head to spells/upgrades

Blacksmith: attack upgrades would cost less for orcs
Lvl1: reduced gold cost from 500 to 300
Lvl2: reduced gold cost from 1500 to 1000

Lumber mill: regeneration upgrade doubles or triples the regeneration speed of berserkers health


Spells:
Bloodlust: bloodlust effect would be halved  , gone are the days of ogre magi spam it still costs 50 mana tho , a possible buff would be +10 duration

Raise dead: skeletons +15 health

This concludes it for this post of rebalancing this old relic forgotten by modern warcraft but we don't forget we don't forgive we are de amani ah I mean warcraft 2 community.

Notes and additional stuff: this will be turned into a mod eventually currently the mod only exists as this post stay tuned for the human edition

-another change would be to farms giving 5 food instead of 4 its literally a scam to pay 750 resources for 4 food

-costs of units would be altered specifically grunts and ogres buildings and spells would cost the same.

Thanks for reading.

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