Warcraft II Forum
Warcraft II => Server.War2.ru => Topic started by: Harrywangs on December 28, 2022, 04:10:12 PM
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During the holidays, there is always an uptick in how many users are on. Usually, we get a solid 60-80 from what I recall. We've had about 25-50ish regularly lately. Winter usually bumps up a bit.
Long story short, we are well short of the typical number of users playing during our peak time. Not a good sign of things to come. It seems to be accelerating at a higher place lately.
Notable players missing:
Myself- took 11 months off
Swift- took a year off apparently
ST- back after how long?
Lone- just around recently otherwise not active as far as I know besides a few smurfs here and there
Braviet- most active user along with u8 who disappeared one day but did randomly show up at a higher prize tourney, lol
spb- still plays but is on noticeably less
00Steve- seen a few times compared to daily
Jesk
Joe- (it's been a while now but still missed/left even though he comes and goes here and there)
Knitterhemd (I see only here and there sometimes)
Teaboy- seen him logged a few times in the last 2-3 months and not playing
Andrez- probably on an aka idk
Player- (ya right)
PB- only on recently
ESN- MIA 2 years?
Jade
Jynx
Pink
Equinox- saw him the other day for the first time in 2-3 months (yes, I read the forum)
KHB- was playing a bit before I left
Any of the iS
Ragnar- I've seen him a couple times- more active lately but, since he took admin, I've seen him rarely. :(
Dj_Boss
Talrand- plays seldom
Raz_
Sepi
Lance
Niko
Donger (smurfing?)
Dugs
Truck[z]
Hotty (always on during the holiday season- 1st time not since he quit
Brz seem to be on less. Rasak for sure.
I'm sure there are many more I can't think of off the top of my head. I'm sure some are smurfing too that I don't know.
Unfortunately, these are just the bigger known names of the community. I'm sure we've lost a LOT of lesser-known names/players as well who don't get the recognition.
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some info:
Ragner from Ukraine and they have electricity shutdowns very often recently, so he prob cannot play often
Niko playing on shitty GOG with trog
dj_boss playing with u8 1v1 almost every day (or at least VERY often, check u8 streams)
Knitterhemd very often can be seen on u8 streams, so he still watching for games, maybe just not have much time to play himself (i saw him yesterday on u8 stream)
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/finger dj_boss. Last login August 12. They used to play daily a lot, yes. Plays on dif name? u8 seems to mostly chop.
Ragner used to be a lot more active. Maybe electricity was better then?
Knit might be on stream, but not playing...
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/finger dj_boss. Last login August 12. They used to play daily a lot, yes. Plays on dif name? u8 seems to mostly chop.
Ragner used to be a lot more active. Maybe electricity was better then?
Knit might be on stream, but not playing...
See the new player names being deleted thread that I posted on. The /finger and /whois for players who have logged in since this issue started doesn't work. You can do /whois or /finger on any player who has logged in for the last so many months, and it will say they logged in last in August or a random date (like 1970 LOL).
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/finger dj_boss. Last login August 12. They used to play daily a lot, yes. Plays on dif name? u8 seems to mostly chop.
Ragner used to be a lot more active. Maybe electricity was better then?
Knit might be on stream, but not playing...
its not working you can use on yourself, you will see last login 12.08 also
lot of people from your list are playing, some stopped before christmas like raz_. some people are playing in diffrent server like niko
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I still play from time to time.
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It's not going to get better unfortunately unless 1 person with a very large audience brings attention to the server .. or lots of people with standard audiences band together to bring attention to the server.
Efforts to get the community to band together and bring attention to server in past have always failed, and to my knowledge none of us have a large audience.
Everyone wants to complain about users consistently declining, but few have ever wanted to work together to do anything about it.
I'm hoping to build a YouTube channel soon.. build a large audience.. and I'd be willing to advertise a new server without all of the unnecessary modifications made to the game. But I can't see myself ever supporting this server that seems hell bent on literally changing the core structure of the game we started playing 25 or w/e years ago
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another server, thats great idea TK, ru,usa, gog, we need another one
too bad you didnt do anything when there was Lan latency, black2pink, holepunch for hosting games, server status, having fl more than 25 people, have command /r /con /games /user, but when Fois made HD, dont use it or im gonna leave w2!
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Wide-screen changes dynamics of game.
Did not fix a problem with game..just changed game
Fixing problems is fine.
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Wide-screen player sees 30% more in viewfinder than person who been playing game 25 years not using wide screen.
Unfair advantage.. makes competition meaningless
"I lost because he saw a DK he hasn't been able to see last 25 years.. and I didn't know he could see it
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Dumbest shit and biggest mistake this community ever made
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Black to pink made game more fair. Equal. Evenly balanced.
Wide-screen makes game more unbalanced
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Yes all know you can forgot upgardes lust xD
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"too bad you didnt do anything when there was Lan latency, black2pink, holepunch for hosting games, server status, having fl more than 25 people, have command /r /con /games /user, but when Fois made HD, dont use it or im gonna leave w2!"
Lat/black2pink/HP/server status/FL/commands- most of that doesn't have much to do with gameplay. I guess you could argue black2pink but that really is more of an anomaly than anything else. Just an overlooked color. You could argue lat too but then you would just be playing devil's advocate at this point. They don't really have anything to do with the functions of the game. Great addons though.
Port forwarding was one of the major roadblocks in this game for new people (safety), and even existing users (just being able to host). That was a great fix.
The whole RU thing; (especially now) the virus notification upon install, along with a website that is deemed unsafe, is what makes new players run away too. I can't promote something and go BUT this BUT that and just TRUST ME that it's safe. If someone told me that, there would be no way I would try out a new game or even go back to an old game. TBH I don't even know that it is safe, lol. I just assume that there are enough people here that know enough about "computers", to keep it simple, that would have blown the whistle by now.
If those were fixed, it would be a lot easier to convince people to play this game.
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Good point about the virus thing... it even makes me uncomfortable downloading the game lol
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Yeah, the virus/unsafe is a huge red flag for new people. Also, widescreen expands the view slightly but has no material impact on the game.
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Any of the iS
I haven't played in many years since I started playing Heroes of the Storm. That games in maintenance mode now so it's cooled off a bit. Dunno when I can be bothered with coming back to war2. The forums are always a great read though lol.
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Main problem is that people dont want Play only gow, lot of people are asking me to Play sea map, but noone will do that, ofc they are very small people who will do that
Also people want fix bloodlust, many people dont belive that we as community didnt rebalance this game to Play more with trolls, archers palladins, so have fun TK, im waiting for your new server, i want see who will Play with you
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We dont need a new server and yes, this virus thing scary people
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You're not going to "fix" a 20+ year old game. They constantly do "fixes" or patches in other games that are 5-10+ years old, just to do more patches. The game is the game. It will never be balanced. Let's not reinvent it.
Yes player, if you can see 1 square more than other player, it makes a difference in gameplay.
If all these people don't want to play GOW, why aren't there enough to not play GOW then?
I literally just hit refresh and antivirus said suspicious connection.
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This HD patch issue, I have a question. TK is saying you can see more with the HD patch. BUT does it add to your vision or do you just see more fog of war? If you just see more fog, that doesn't give much advantage. If a say 9 sighted unit can see 10 sight then yes that's an advantage.
Does the HD patch actually increase units vision or just the fog of war you see?
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It adds to your vision on the left and right sides.
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You're not going to "fix" a 20+ year old game. They constantly do "fixes" or patches in other games that are 5-10+ years old, just to do more patches. The game is the game. It will never be balanced. Let's not reinvent it.
Yes player, if you can see 1 square more than other player, it makes a difference in gameplay.
If all these people don't want to play GOW, why aren't there enough to not play GOW then?
I literally just hit refresh and antivirus said suspicious connection.
With who new people can play, if they log on warcraft 2, join "gow good" where most people are not enough good and should be banned xD, and host ask them about s9, and kick out? Some people started playing cause they saw my youtube/twitch channel and they are doing fine, one guy move to Trogallart(i gave him link) cause he dont want play only gow, he was asking me when I will play his maps and I answered him I cant force people to play his maps
Why not? why not bring new people with balance? cause you must use bloodlust after 20 years? you cant use palladins with autoheal?(its still not balanced)
people balanced games like Red Alert 2 to play it more fair, in past it was also 640x480. look how many streamers they got
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Command%20%26%20Conquer%3A%20Red%20Alert%202/videos/all (https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Command%20%26%20Conquer%3A%20Red%20Alert%202/videos/all)
balanced game* ->more people -> more streamers -> more casual players -> more games
and we cant make first step, cause people like TK cant accept HD patch
*rebalanced is not good, if we want change anything we should make it for everyone, not to pick in lobby
We got Mistral who can do everything, just give him ideas, after talk how to balance game
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This HD patch issue, I have a question. TK is saying you can see more with the HD patch. BUT does it add to your vision or do you just see more fog of war? If you just see more fog, that doesn't give much advantage. If a say 9 sighted unit can see 10 sight then yes that's an advantage.
Does the HD patch actually increase units vision or just the fog of war you see?
Doesnt change the fog.
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Yep, doesn’t change anything. They’re just looking for reasons to complain. No one is going to lose a game because the other person is using Hd vs them choosing to stay on the old view.
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Yep, doesn’t change anything. They’re just looking for reasons to complain. No one is going to lose a game because the other person is using Hd vs them choosing to stay on the old view.
If you can see more of the map, you have advantage.
I can't believe anyone is even trying to debate this.
.. we have all lost games because the enemy ended up landing one more d&d .. mined one more bag of gold.. had one more tower.. or peon. Or ogre..
Being able to see 30% more in your view finder is a big fucking deal in highly competitive games.. or an otherwise equally balanced match
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Yep, doesn’t change anything. They’re just looking for reasons to complain. No one is going to lose a game because the other person is using Hd vs them choosing to stay on the old view.
If you can see more of the map, you have advantage.
I can't believe anyone is even trying to debate this.
.. we have all lost games because the enemy ended up landing one more d&d .. mined one more bag of gold.. had one more tower.. or peon. Or ogre..
Being able to see 30% more in your view finder is a big fucking deal in highly competitive games.. or an otherwise equally balanced match
Yeah, the extra 2 or 3 spaces on view finder with fog of war makes a huge difference in preventing you from being Dk’d. Lols. Makes no difference.
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U8, you have to understand that, to even get to that point, people need to/want to install the game and get through the hurdles that are there in the first place. I would guess even some of your streamers feel the same way. So, before we get into great detail, that still needs to be addressed first. Walk before you can run.
U8, you have the most influence of the players on here. If you host a dif map, people will come. In order to create an actual consistent culture of that though, you'll need new players, as you cannot be the only one doing it. Also, you play GOW/Chop 95% of the time and the people who watch your stream don't want to play those maps? I'm probably missing something though as I don't really watch your stream.
"GOW GOOD" has most players that are bad. Even the hosts are bad, lol. I'll give you screen shots of that all day. Yes, brand new people do indeed get asked sometimes though. It's just difficult to play a 4v3 every game without 7 of the 8 people wanting to kill themselves after a few games. It's the best it's ever been though, in terms of letting newer/worse skilled people play. That doesn't mean it's GREAT but its better at least. Even though it's not the most ideal outcome for players, obs feature at least lets them watch as opposed to being kicked for building while they shouldn't or whatnot.
All those games, that have multiple patches, are because of imbalances of the game, right? Then why are there multiple patches instead of just 1? Because rebalancing something, makes something else imbalanced. Same will happen here and we can't afford to lose players. Don't ruin the game.
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Player, what about chops, walls, towers/zeps/dks. Really any sight that goes past the original resolution's size? That all factors in.
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im just hit about gow good, that most people should not ever host it as gow good
duda hosted yesterday diffrent map, we had 6 people game before, when he hosted in game was only me and duda
I understand why duda host not only gow tours and for many people its problem "why its not only gow"
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It's a lot more than "2 or 3 spaces" ..
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Maybe if you try hosting it would have different results? Maybe not.
New people understand they can host themselves, right? I'm not sure why that never seems to happen. It doesn't need to be 3s/4s. Duda's league was probably the best chance you had. Did a lot of new players play in that? I don't think I saw many. Your stream was up when you played in them, right? Why didn't they come and play?
It's almost like saying new people want to play faster or fastest on GOW"EF" map. That's great and all but nobody plays that. That's the same as the map issue. Nobody plays those maps. Beggers can't be choosers sometimes. I'm not sure there is any solution to that unless you get a ton of new people at once. And in order to do so, you need to fix the initial issues mentioned above first.
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Player, what about chops, walls, towers/zeps/dks. Really any sight that goes past the original resolution's size? That all factors in.
I agree with you that there are differences or perceived advantages. I’m just saying they’re immaterial. No game is going to be won, lost, or impacted because of it. Auto lusting with macros or whatever is way more of an advantage than the resolution change and even that is not really a big deal.
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What would you consider a perceived advantage that is not an absolute advantage? Many high-level games have a higher potential to be won or lost by 1 square. And even your average games are affected as well.
Here are some examples:
1) The reaction time I have to pull my peons before they get dked is much longer than it would be without the resolution change. (Assuming you have a tower/zep/unit or something that would have sight of it in the first place; for all of these)
2) The reaction time I have to lust my ogres because lusted ogres are already headed towards me is advantageous. That is almost equal to macro lusting, as it all has to do with time.
3) If someone is about to sap you, you have time to put an ogre/wall between 2 buildings or prepare peons to rep quicker on buildings like a barracks that takes very little repping to survive before the 2nd sap. Or just reclose.
4) Walls- while generally insignificant, players who are dead can wall up expos (no fog required), rep their pards, and/or constantly scout. This makes it easier to realize where the peon is.
5) Something as simple as being towered. Say you are being towered below 4. You can see it better, although it's commonly missed. If my view is a bit above the tower, I won't see that. With the higher resolution view, you would be able to see it easier because it will be in your vision. So, hypothetically, we could be at the same place on our screens, per se, yet one can see it and the other cannot.
While they could possibly be considered perceived advantages because of fog of war. Anything that has sight, I would consider these quantitative advantageous. Let's just say I've missed a lot of dks/mages in my day.
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most of that what you said its not about how much square you see, but how you see mini map, if you see it perfect, you will see all,if you see dk coming from 18x14 or 14x14 doesnt matter its allready to late , you will not have time to pull it, mini map is more important than normal map
still we havent got pro scene(and never had) to talk about it, arent we playing most for fun? ofc talking shit that your ally suck is part of community and you can find it in all multiplayer games, doesnt matter its new or old game
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Shout out to the 24/7 clan was cool seeing Pimpster, Gyanyu, and Wadju playing this season like they do every year.
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It's exactly how much square you see on the NON-mini map. You see more details in the regular view. Mini map shows a color; not a dk, ogre, sap, etc. You are looking at the actual gameplay (regular view) screen the majority of the time. If you disagree, I will say, what do the vast majority of the players look at? Maybe not the elite, like you. (what about tower wars and close area battles?)
This has basically "rebalanced" or patched the game, as referenced before. I am 100% more likely to see what is in my direct field of vision than a blip of a color on the mini map. Especially if you have multiple players at one place at a time. Then the mini map is basically useless, especially in mid.
What you are saying is, for lack of a better term, a "workaround". You are basically just saying, you had 2 options, now you have 1 still. Or now, one is better than the other depending on which resolution you have compared to no new resolution option. So those who don't have it, MUST use mini map more than those who do. It's just easier to see something in your direct view than a small color on a small map. Minim map does not show what unit is there either.
Give most people an extra second or 5 (if dk is standing there waiting, out of view) and I get more peons saved when I pull them. That is a big factor.
Yes, we play for fun but many of us enjoy good competition in order to maintain that fun. Especially the higher skilled players. Michael Jordan doesn't want to play basketball with high school kids on a daily basis for multiple games. But high school kids want to play with Michael Jordan every game and are disappointed when they cannot.
It's easy for lessor players to want to play with high skilled players and be carried. It's harder and more frustrating for higher skilled players to have to carry every single game.
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No hotty this year. :(
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I understand your view, but player with higher view got harder to scroll since he got bigger screen(i had it problem when i started playing with HD) and must more important thing community wanted it
people voted some people say no, some people say idc, but most people said yes, if most people said no we should not use it
for new people using HD will be much easier than 14x14
for new people using custom hotkeys will be easier than using basic
we should use it special for new people who played for example warcraft 3 but they want play warcraft 2, in warcraft 3 you can do everything with hotkeys(move them, reassign what you want), you wont bring noobs with basic warcraft 2 cause tk want play "real" warcraft 2
most new people want play humans and archers
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I didn't think about the scrolling and/or mouse sensitivity change. But I guess since you are doing something different than the original by choice, it's something one just has to deal with since you've made the conscious decision.
I always take votes with a grain of salt just because like 10 people respond on these things. As you can tell, the majority of this conversation has been just us, lol. But when the vote goes my way, I don't complain about that. So, I have to realize it goes both ways.
I don't think there is anything you can do about it at this point to be honest. I mostly don't like deviating from the original game because then you cannot compare apples to apples in skill level. Especially from older players or older players who come back or something. I guess that's more of a stubborn old man pride thing. (even though I'm not even a top player to compare to others) It's just respecting the game for me. I do see the value in having more functions for newer players though. I'd be curious what fortheking and a couple others think.
Anyways, the original topic, well was holiday users but the real issue about how to acquire more people. I'll start a new thread at this point.
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So what if someone back after years and it will be new Warcraft 2? If I didnt Play dota2 for one year game will be diffrent for me and its my problem that I need learn new gameplay
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I don't disagree. But those games have thousands of users. Here, each player's opinions have a greater weight than other games at this point due to the lack of users giving them a higher influence. You could hypothetically give it a percentage if you really wanted to.
You also have people who have been playing for 10-25 years who are holding this game above water. It's best not to piss them off. Then you also could have people who come back and now they see something they don't like anymore, and it makes them not want to play again.
Yes, we want to move forward with the new, but we cannot afford to piss off the old either. It's like walking on a tight rope.
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I didn't think about the scrolling and/or mouse sensitivity change. But I guess since you are doing something different than the original by choice, it's something one just has to deal with since you've made the conscious decision.
I always take votes with a grain of salt just because like 10 people respond on these things. As you can tell, the majority of this conversation has been just us, lol. But when the vote goes my way, I don't complain about that. So, I have to realize it goes both ways.
I don't think there is anything you can do about it at this point to be honest. I mostly don't like deviating from the original game because then you cannot compare apples to apples in skill level. Especially from older players or older players who come back or something. I guess that's more of a stubborn old man pride thing. (even though I'm not even a top player to compare to others) It's just respecting the game for me. I do see the value in having more functions for newer players though. I'd be curious what fortheking and a couple others think.
Anyways, the original topic, well was holiday users but the real issue about how to acquire more people. I'll start a new thread at this point.
Just want to point out that being reasonable and open minded goes against the spirit of the original war2.
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Debates and conversations are better than arguments and insults. Believe it or not. :)